Some kinda Wonderful request

Thanks again Wes, but I wasn't wanting the harp solo, just wondering how people play the melody line on the guitar, how do you know where to start, where next etc. I just think it'd help make stuff more interesting to listen to and might make the song more recognisable?

Oh yeah, would you play barre chords in the shuffle?

Jim

Well, if you are talking about a Blues type shuffle song, the melody will most likely be the Minor Pentatonic scale. That is the most common scale used in Blues. But sometimes the Major scale or Major Pentatonic scale is used.

When I started playing, there were very few tab books. And most songbooks were written for piano. So, almost everybody just hunted and pecked for the notes. I would just play a song or solo over and over and find one note, or one chord at a time. It was hard work, but after awhile your ear gets real good. You can usually tell which string is getting played by the tone, and sometimes you recognize certain chords. I am pretty good at recognizing an E, G, and D chord as soon as I hear it. But I spent literally thousands of hours doing this. So it takes practice.

Today it's much easier. You can buy note-for-note guitar tabs, and there are tabs all over the web for just about any song. This is good in that you can learn quickly, but I don't think people have as good an ear as they used to.

It is not all ear though. If a song started with a G chord, then 90% of the time the song is in G. That gave me a good idea of what chords to try.

Most (but not every) song is played with the Major I, IV, and V chords and the Minor VI, II, and III chords. This is a good rule to know.

So, the Major scale for G is G, A, B, C, D, E, F# and back to G.

The I chord is G. The IV chord is C, the V chord is D. The minor VI chord is Em, the minor II chord is Am, and the minor III chord is Bm.

So, there you go. If a song is in G, then the other chords are probably a C, D, Em, Am, and Bm.

And this works. You can figure out hundreds of songs by just knowing this simple rule. It doesn't always work, but usually it does. Sometimes there might be one chord that breaks the rule. The Beatles liked to do this. They would throw in a "hook" or really cool but unusual sounding chord. They might throw in a F chord for instance. This is the flatted 7th chord in G and gives a Blues feel. But they might throw in any chord.

This is how I would figure out songs. I would first try to determine the key (usually the 1st chord). This would give me a good idea of the chords used in the song, and the scale used to play the melody line or solo. Then I would use my ear to match up the chords and scale tones.

This works. This is how everybody learned to play just a few years back.

Jim

Here is an example of what I was talking about. Here is Have You Ever Seen the Rain by CCR.

http://forums.guitarnoise.com/viewtopic.php?t=21036

Now, this intro starts with an Am chord, but look how the 1st verse starts. It starts with a C. This would be a good clue to me that this song is in the key of C.

So the Major scale for C is:

C D E F G A B and back to C

The I chord would be C, the IV chord is F, the V chord is G, the minor VI chord is Am, the minor II chord is Dm, and the minor III chord is Em.

So, I would guess that these chords could be used to figure out this song:

C, F, G, Am, Dm, and Em.

And look at the song. You can figure out this song with these very chords. 8)

And that is how this simple rule works. I would just try one of the chords against the song. My ear would tell me when the chord is correct.

Learn this simple rule and then use your ear. You will be figuring out many songs quickly.

Jim

Here are a few straight forward examples that I threw together. They don't sound the greatest (the clicks are a bit loud) but I hope they help:

-Straight Eight-Notes (No Swing/Shuffle): http://www.nd.edu/~jwitten2/Eights.mp3
-Swing/Shuffle Eight-Notes: http://www.nd.edu/~jwitten2/Swing.mp3
-And just for kicks, here the strumming pattern that I was talking about for 'Some Kinda Wonderful': http://www.nd.edu/~jwitten2/Rythm.mp3

Thanks for those, but could you tell me what chords and strum you use please?

Wes, thanks again, I'm trying to follow your advice.

Jim

The particular chords you play are not important. What is important is the timing.

As for the strum, remember that each quarter note is divided into a triplet. So your count if you count out loud will sound like,

One two three, Two two three, Three two three, Four two three

The triplet is very important in the Blues. It is used often, and really it is the triplet that gives Blues it's distinctive sound. You have heard these triplets many times.

Remember the super hot guitar John Lennon played to start Revolution? That was a triplet.


B

e-----------10----------12----------
b-10/--12--------12^(14)------------
g-----------------------------------
d-----------------------------------
a-----------------------------------
e-----------------------------------


See how the double stops (two notes played at once) at the 7th fret are played in 3's? That is a triplet.

The shuffle if created by dropping out the middle note of each triplet. So intead of counting

One two three, Two two three, your count would be:

One three Two three Three three Four three One three Two............

I guess you could compare it to skipping. When you skip you take one long step, and one short step. Well, the shuffle is like that.

How do you pick or strum?? You can use alternate picking or strumming. When you use alternate picking the first beat will start with a downstoke, the second beat an upstroke. This will alternate with each beat. So, the third beat will start with a downstroke, and the fourth with an upstroke. That is how this shuffle will feel with alternate picking or strumming.

Here is the last 7 measures of a standard 12 bar blues in the key of E. You can play a simple bass root note like this, or strum the whole chord if you want. I have shown alternate picking or strumming, but you could use all downstrokes if you want. What is important is the feel and timing of the shuffle.


E A

Hope this helped. Once you get this shuffle you will laugh. It is really pretty simple. Just go slow and you'll get it.

Thanks again Wes I think I am getting it, but to an earlier Q, would you play barre5ths for Some Kinda or full chords?

I have never really tried to play this song, but I do have a recording of Grand Funk that I often play during breaks at gigs (people love Grand Funk).

Yeah, the Grand Funk recording is mostly just bass guitar, but you could play a simple 5 chord (root note and 5th) for this. It will probably sound best with palm muting, rest the side of your picking hand on the strings at or just in front of the bridge.

And if you are playing along with that bassline, you are playing the Blues shuffle. :D

I guess I could use a similar shuffle in 'Fillmore Shuffle' by Sammy Hagar but does anyone know which keychords please?
http://www.redrocker.com/index.php?s=media&a=discography&aid=25

Sorry to bump this but could someone help me with the actual chords?
Which 5ths would you use for the G, A and D in this case?
Just tried the 'Before you accuse me' lesson and that does the

22 44
00 00
style shuffle, would you do the same or play full measures of the same notechord in the I-IV-V, or I-IV-I as Jason says it is D-G-D?

Or jason, could you tell me the chords you play in your rhythm example, please

For the strum pattern on the third file that I posted (the one with the actually sturmming, not just the notes) I used the following chords:

Drop D Tuning: D A D G B e
---------------------------------
D: 0 0 0 2 3 2
G: x x 0 0 3 3
A: x 0 2 2 2 0


Since the song is in D, I like having that D on the lowest string; it kind of mimics the bass in the original recording. That's the only reason I used dropped-D...standard tuning works just as fine :smile: I hope that I'm answering the right question, if not, just ask again, and I shall try again :D

Oh and looking back on it...the pre-chorus is just A-G-D...I'm not sure what I was thinking when I originally posted it..sorry!

thanks jason,
so you play full chords then?
I got the impression that power chords would be better, but I'll try your way.

In the end, it's all what you think sounds best. I'm sure power chords could be made to work too. I just like the full chords because the give me more notes to help me find the pitch when I'm singing...which is a much needed aid for my not-so-well-trained voice :wink:

In the end, it's all what you think sounds best. I'm sure power chords could be made to work too. I just like the full chords because the give me more notes to help me find the pitch when I'm singing...which is a much needed aid for my not-so-well-trained voice :wink:

Thanks again,
one last question as it is late and I don't want to wake every one, but do you play a 12 bar pattern (with the triplet shuffle)?
so 4 bars of A, 2 of G, 2 of A, D, G then 2 A?