I don't understand about 7ths 9ths, etc. I was thinking that C7 was called C7 because the added note (A#) is the 7th degree in the scale of C but A# isn'tt it is A. So I was wondering why are they called 6ths,7ths,and so on.
And what is the difference between a C7 and a Cma7.I know the notes are different but I thought C left alone was a major already along with anything without a mi on the end. Thanks :D
C7 is a shortening of Cmin7 - the 7th is flat, as you so rightly noted. Cmaj7 is the same chord, except that the 7th is not changed (B not Bb, in C).
A# would be the major 7th of B.
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C7 is a shortening of Cmin7 - the 7th is flat, as you so rightly noted.
Not quite. Cmin7 is a C minor (C-Eb-G or 1-b3-5) with a flat 7 th (Bb or b7), while C7 is a C major (C-E-G or 1-3-5) with a b7 (dominant 7th).
Originally 7ths were only used on the V degree, thus X7 was used to denote the most common kind. If maj7 chords had been common in those days, they might have been named 7ths and dominant 7th chords like C7 named something else.
Cmaj7 is the same chord, except that the 7th is not changed (B not Bb, in C).
Here are some other chord types:
Chord Notes(degree) Notes(C root)
---------------------------------------------------
major 1 3 5 C E G
6 1 3 5 6 C E G A
7 (dom7) 1 3 5 b7 C E G Bb
maj7 (M7) 1 3 5 7 C E G B
9 1 3 5 b7 9 C E G Bb D
maj9 (M9) 1 3 5 7 9 C E G B D
11 1 3 5 b7 (9) 11 C E G Bb F # extremely rare
maj11 1 3 5 7 (9) 11 C E G B F # extremely rare
add11 1 3 5 11 C E G F
13 1 3 5 b7 (9 11) 13 C E G Bb A
add9 1 3 5 9 C E G D
sus2 (2) 1 2 5 C D G
sus4 (sus) 1 4 5 C F G
sus#4 1 #4 5 C F# G
sus7 1 4 5 b7 C F G Bb
5 1 5 C G
aug 1 3 #5 C Eb G#
6/9 1 3 5 6 9 C E G A D
minor (m) 1 b3 5 C Eb G
min7 (m7) 1 b3 5 b7 C Eb G Bb
min9 (m9) 1 b3 5 b7 9 C Eb G Bb D
min11 1 b3 5 b7 (9) 11 C Eb G Bb F
minmaj7 1 b3 5 7 C Eb G B
dim (°) 1 b3 b5 C Eb Gb
dim7 1 b3 b5 bb7 C Eb Gb A
min7b5 1 b3 b5 b7 C Eb Gb Bb
--
Helgi Briem
hbriem AT gmail DOT com
The extensions (6,7,9 ...) come from constructing chords by triads. A triad is made by notes 1, 3 and 5 of the scale, adding the next third makes a 7th chord, put a third above that makes a 9 meaning the octave + a second. You can add thirds until you get a 13, which is a chord made of all the seven notes in the scale.
The extensions (6,7,9 ...) come from constructing chords by triads. A triad is made by notes 1, 3 and 5 of the scale, adding the next third makes a 7th chord, put a third above that makes a 9 meaning the octave + a second. You can add thirds until you get a 13, which is a chord made of all the seven notes in the scale.
It's not theoretically valid to lump 6ths in with 7ths, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths, as "extensions".
6ths are major chords...a 6th simply adds the 6th note to the basic triad.
7ths, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths are Dominant chords, because they all employ the flatted 7th as Dominant note.
"A child of five could understand this...send someone to fetch a child of five !"--Groucho Marx
C7 is a shortening of Cmin7 - the 7th is flat, as you so rightly noted.
Not quite.
Quite right - I knew there was something wrong, when I typed it, but was on my way to a meeting and had no time to warm up my brain.
Sorry for any confusion.
I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN
still don't understand very well.The added note is A# but the 7th in the scale is A?Am I missing something?
still don't understand very well.The added note is A# but the 7th in the scale is A?Am I missing something?
Yes, you are - The 7th is NOT A, it's B so the flat 7th (the note added to make a seventh chord) is B flat.
There are several types of 7ths chords.
The two you are struggling with are Major 7th and Dominant 7th.
A C Major Major 7th is commonly just written as CMaj7 and includes the 7th of the scale (in this case B), so the notes would be C-E-G-B.
A C Dominant 7th is commonly just written as C7 and is pronounced and includes the flattened 7th of the major scale (in this case Bb), so the notes would be C-E-G-Bb. This is still a major chord.
A C Minor Major 7th (C-Maj7) would be the C Minor chord with the 7th of the scale (B) so the notes (C-Eb-G-B).
A C Minor Dominant 7th (C-7) would be the C minor chord with the flattened 7th of the major scale. So the notes would be (C-Eb-G-Bb)
The reason for the two prominent types of 7th chords is because harmonizing the scale from different places results in different types of 7th chords.
If you stack up thirds using the C Major scale starting on C, you get C-E-G-B -- a CMaj7 chord. But if you stack up thirds using the F Major scale starting on C you get C-E-G-Bb -- a C7 chord. The second chord is still Major (the third is a major third and the fifth is a perfect fifth) but the quality of the 7th is different.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
The extensions (6,7,9 ...) come from constructing chords by triads. A triad is made by notes 1, 3 and 5 of the scale, adding the next third makes a 7th chord, put a third above that makes a 9 meaning the octave + a second. You can add thirds until you get a 13, which is a chord made of all the seven notes in the scale.
And, when you play a 13th chord, or an 11th or 9th, you've still only got 4 fingers, so you play
the root
the 3rd - to show whether it's a major or minor chord
the 7th - because it's a dominant chord
the 13th - or the 11th, or the 9th
Best,
A :-)
"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk
And, when you play a 13th chord, or an 11th or 9th, you've still only got 4 fingers, so you play
the root
the 3rd - to show whether it's a major or minor chord
the 7th - because it's a dominant chord
the 13th - or the 11th, or the 9th
Actually, there's are no "rules" as to what to play in these cases. It very much depends on the context of what you're doing.
For example, if I'm comping along with a bass player and a piano player, I might just play the 3rd the 5th. The Bass player and the piano player will more than likely catch the root somewhere, and the piano player will be doing something with the extensions. My job is to not step on anyone else and keep the rhythm.
On the other hand, if I'm on the solo, I might play only the upper partial and let the bass and piano player carry the chord.
There really are no rules here, every situation is different.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
And, when you play a 13th chord, or an 11th or 9th, you've still only got 4 fingers, so you play
the root
the 3rd - to show whether it's a major or minor chord
the 7th - because it's a dominant chord
the 13th - or the 11th, or the 9th
Actually, there's are no "rules" as to what to play in these cases. It very much depends on the context of what you're doing.
For example, if I'm comping along with a bass player and a piano player, I might just play the 3rd the 5th. The Bass player and the piano player will more than likely catch the root somewhere, and the piano player will be doing something with the extensions. My job is to not step on anyone else and keep the rhythm.
On the other hand, if I'm on the solo, I might play only the upper partial and let the bass and piano player carry the chord.
There really are no rules here, every situation is different.
Alan makes a valid and useful point though, i.e., how to capture the essence of the chord when you've only four fingers to do it with.
Of course if you're bringing in bass and piano players to share the load, then that's a completely different scenario and anything goes.
And, when you play a 13th chord, or an 11th or 9th, you've still only got 4 fingers, so you play
the root
the 3rd - to show whether it's a major or minor chord
the 7th - because it's a dominant chord
the 13th - or the 11th, or the 9th
Actually, there's are no "rules" as to what to play in these cases. . . .
every situation is different.
Alan makes a valid and useful point though, i.e., how to capture the essence of the chord when you've only four fingers to do it with.
Of course if you're bringing in bass and piano players to share the load, then that's a completely different scenario and anything goes.
Even if you're all alone, what you need to play is quite variable.
Alan's key point -- you have to drop something -- is of course absolutely true for anything beyond an 11th, and is usually true in practice for everything from 7ths up.
And the basics he states are quite on target:
You will need to have the root or 5th, but usually not both and only if the chord base is important (sometimes it isn't)
You should have the 3rd to show if it's minor or major If that's important for that chord (sometimes it isn't if the chord is non-functional or if you have moving key centers)
The 7th is usually the most important of the extension tones on the way up to the 13th
The 11th or 13th, usually not both.
modified tones are usually more critical than non-modified tones. For example, in a B7b5#11 chord, the b5 and #11 are generally more important than just about anything else, or the chord wouldn't have them!
But how to do this in practice comes down to -- do what sounds good for what you're playing! And figuring out what that will be is pretty much left to experience.
This is an area where no matter how nuanced you make the rules, you can find some great player breaking them and making it work!
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
Thanks for the info guys.I will get my guitar teacher to help a bit more with it.
One more question!I don't understand the Chromatic scale.Is it were you can just play what ever you want without scale restrictions?I don't know how to use it.
One more question!I don't understand the Chromatic scale.Is it were you can just play what ever you want without scale restrictions?I don't know how to use it.
Think of the chromatic scale as all the scales combined into one super-scale. Or by analogy, think of it like the alphabet, which contains every letter used in the English language. If you just start combining its letters without restriction, you'll end up with unreadable and unpronounceable nonsense.
It's the same with the chromatic scale. It's just a collection of all the notes, each equally separated from its neighbours by the interval of a semitone (half step), which renders it characterless. In contrast, all other scales have a distinct musical character resulting from their unique note spacings.
If you want to think in terms of scales at all, use whichever scale best suits your needs, and if you want more notes than that scale provides, you can "colour" it (the origin of the word chromatic) with notes of the chromatic scale in the form of passing notes, etc.
If you could use the chomatic scale as a means of scale based improvising, every other scale would immediately become redundant as they are all contained within the chromatic scale.
I'm not writing it off though - it has other great uses in its own right, both in practice and theory, e.g., accurate fretting practice, and also in understanding the big picture of how all notes and scales relate to each other.
