As I mentioned earlier, "key" means a lot of different things.
Here the key signature is G - there's no question about that.
The "key" (as in tonal center of the chord progression) MAY be G, or it might be D. Right now there's no way for any of us to tell - including the composer... because the piece isn't done yet. There are tons of songs that take a basic set of chords and use them in a different order for the verse/chorus/bridge - and the "key" of the song will depend on where it feels most at rest.
And the "key" (as in tonal center/modality) of the melody isn't known - we don't have even enough information to speculate.
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So... the "key" of a piece is defined by its key signature.
Got it.
Not always, no. Indeed my comments that it could be G, C, D or god knows what else should make that clear. Heck, I'm a jazz guy, I'm almost always dealing with key of the moment, I'm under no illusion that the key signature is the key of the piece.
However, given the information we have, the only possible answer as to what key it is is G. That's it. Anything else is pure speculation.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
So... the "key" of a piece is defined by its key signature.
Got it.
Not always, no.
Too bad, because that new information would have made next week's jam session interesting: "OK, let's do 'Whole Lotta Love.'" "What key is it in?" "Sorry, don't have the sheet music. One, two...." Or, as I play the riff G Bb G Bb C, I might have said, "It's in F."
:lol:
When people ask, "What key is this in?" 99 times out of 100 they are not inquiring as to the number of sharps or flats following the treble clef. They are asking about the tonal center. But the OP knew his tonal center already. We're into p.2, and I apparently have no idea what the OP was asking when he asked what key his piece was in.
I'm under no illusion that the key signature is the key of the piece.
However, given the information we have, the only possible answer as to what key it is is G. That's it. Anything else is pure speculation.
We're into p.2, and I still have no idea what you mean by "what key it is."
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
The "key" (as in tonal center of the chord progression) MAY be G, or it might be D. Right now there's no way for any of us to tell - including the composer... because the piece isn't done yet. .
True, it's not finished and for all we know he could end up in Ab minor if he wanted. But so far, he has written a piece of music that, to use his own words, is "tonally centred around D". If a piece of music is "tonally centred around D", it must be in D something at least up to the point he's reached. We can discuss whether it's really D major with mode mixture (the bVII), or whether it's D Mixolydian, depending on the melody, etc., but we can't argue against the fact that D is the I chord, given that the composition so far is "tonally centred around D". We can't say it's in G and call D the V chord, if it constantly comes across sounding like the I chord.
"Key" without reference to a key centre has no value when we actually know what the key centre is.
We can discuss whether it's really D major with mode mixture (the bVII), or whether it's D Mixolydian, depending on the melody, etc., but we can't argue against the fact that D is the I chord, given that the composition so far is "tonally centred around D".
It's not just me, then. Thank you!
"Key" without reference to a key centre has no value when we actually know what the key centre is.
That is how I see it. (But then I presume the composer is in control enough of his material to actually know where his tonal center is.)
What does it mean "to be in a key?" I never would have thought the question had so many philosophical ramifications.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
...If by "key" you mean "tonal center," which is invariably the definition I assume when talking about "key" -- he told us the intended tonal center upfront. Perhaps a more fruitful discussion would be about how s/he can reinforce the D tonal center
Hey everyone.. Thanks very much for all of your help and awesome answers. I do agree with everyone that it definitely is a chord progression from G.
I am however trying to tonally center around the D. I'm doing it on purpose to get the feel and better understanding of modes, I guess I'm trying to create a modal piece.
So I would guess my question could now evolve to:
How could I take what I have already and reinforce it as a Dorian piece, or any mode for that matter?
Please understand though that I'm not trying to make things confusing, I'm just really trying to grasp the modal concept.
Thanks very much!
As I see it, you've got a a bit of a problem approaching this as a Dorian piece.
The modes are just scales with different interval relationships. And they fall into two groups - those that sound major, and those that sound minor.
The major-y modes are Ionian (major scale), Lydian (major with a #4) and Mixolydian (major with a b7). The minor-y ones are Aeolian (natural minor), Dorian (natural minor with a #6) and Phrygian (natural minor with a b2).
So here you've got a chord progression that's clearly major, and a scale that's minor. It can be made to work, but it takes a bit of experience - my suggestion would be to replace the chords with minor ones; then you'll be working with a matching 'flavor'. After you've got some experience with the Dorian, then you can try it over the original progression.
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I agree with NoteBoat. You can't reinforce the Dorian feel of your melody if you harmonise it with a chord progression that doesn't support the Dorian mode. You'd have to change the D to D minor (the C and G are fine as they already agree with the D Dorian mode).
The chord progression as it stands does support the D Mixolydian mode - but you're melody isn't Mixolydian, not with that F natural. Change that F to F# if you want to establish a Mixolydian feel for the whole piece.
Thanks a lot for all your comments, I appreciate it. Gives me some more stuff to play with :D
Another thing that I read on another site that I think is kind of a cool idea is to play the root of the scale in bass if possible throughout the progression to get the feel of the different modes. Obviously making some of them / chords but a cool idea I thought to get the feel for it.
I agree with NoteBoat. You can't reinforce the Dorian feel of your melody if you harmonise it with a chord progression that doesn't support the Dorian mode. You'd have to change the D to D minor (the C and G are fine as they already agree with the D Dorian mode).
The chord progression as it stands does support the D Mixolydian mode - but you're melody isn't Mixolydian, not with that F natural. Change that F to F# if you want to establish a Mixolydian feel for the whole piece.
I also agree with NoteBoat - If you try to enforce a Dorian feel you will have some tonal clashes. If you re-arranged your progression to have C being the primary chord, then it would be Dorian. But if you want a minor sounding solo/melody for the current progression, try using F# Locrian.
