Solo Player/Music Theory

I don't think it's a case of being able to think quickly, I think it's a case of it becoming hard-wired into your brain over time. You stop consciously applying theory, but it's all in there anyway.

I think anyone could learn how to improvise over a chord progression through trial and error alone. In time you'd figure out which notes sound good and which don't, which sequences of notes sound good over which chords... you'd anticipate chord changes and find ways to make the lead line move smoothly during them. Eventually you'd get to a point where you could improvise quite well over that particular progression.

In my opinion theory isn't essential to becoming a solo player. It's more like a shortcut. If you're blessed with great ears and a musical mind, and are able to transfer what you hear in your mind to the guitar, there'd be no need for theory at all.

Here is an anology for you:  Guitar soloing is like having a conversation.  

A young child gradually develops language.   That same child will learn language theory (the alphabet, conjugating verbs, etc...) and that same child will also build up a wealth of life experiences.  The end result is that the young child grows into a young adult who can have a meaningful confersation.

Same with guitar.  You learn some scales and develop some finger agility.  You gain some experience by learning solos from the masters as well as by jamming with your friends.  THe end result is that all of these factors become internalized in you and you can converse musically by taking solos.

Keep it up!

Andy

I think that what you are all talking about is improvising, not soloing.

Before anyone takes this the wrong way, what I am about to say is not meant to imply that learning theory is unimportant.  Quite the opposite.  But I digress...

When it comes to improvising, blutic and andy have it right on the money.  You have to know your stuff in order to sound right when making things up on the fly, or when composing something new.  

But when it comes to playing pre-written solos, well, you don't have to know much more than how to read music (these days sometimes tab is enough), and have the finger dexterity and technique to play what is written.  Think of it as an analogy to  cooking.  With sufficiently explicit directions, anyone can cook any gormet meal, provided that the directions are correct, and the person doing the cooking is able to follow them precisely.  The same thing with playing written music.  If the music is correct, and the player knows how to play what is written as it is written, then not much else is needed.

Of course (going back to cooking) if the want-to-be gormet chef decides to start getting creative and substituting ingredients, altering cooking times, or whathaveyou without knowing what she or he is doing, then there's going to be some unhappy people come dinnertime.  The same with playing.  Whoever wants to do more than play mechanicaly what is in front of them must have some underlying knowledge of how the notes came to be put there, and why the notes, together and as a whole, produce their result.

That knowledge is called music theory.  And there is no shortcut.  Here's an example.  I have  a friend who's been playing classical piano for over 20 years. She also happens to be gifted with perfect pitch (meaning that she can identify notes and chords without having them put in any context) Recently, she decided that she wanted to learn to play jazz.  She is taking lessons.  Even a talented, experienced musician with perfect pitch can not just take sounds and translate them arbitrarily into notes.  First, the underlying reasoning must be understood.  

Good to see my comments generated some disagreement.

I'm firmly entrenched in the 'learn every scrap of theory I can get my hands on' camp. I'm also painfully aware that all the theory in the world isn't going to enable me to come up with something fresh and new and wonderful. All it does is show me how things are related, and why some things work better than other things. It helps me to play 'right', but it doesn't help me to play something groundbreaking.

The really great music happens when you stop thinking about the theory, and your hands just start playing stuff that clicks, and somehow everything is suddenly working just how you want it. It's those elusive, all too rare moments that keep me playing the guitar year after year.

As for solos vs improvisation - I assumed spiderpain was talking about improvisation, as he talked about 'thinking of everything in electricity speed'. If you've got a month to work out a solo for a song you can think of everything in turtle speed and you'll still get there.

Hmmm... do the really great solos start off as an improvisation, then get massaged a bit from there? Or does the guitarist sit down surrounded by theory books and carefully plan each note and phrase? The idealist in me is really hoping it's the former...

And I guess it's impossible to completely avoid theory. If you sit down every night for two months and jam over a chord progression, you'll end up with some kind of a theory. 'Do NOT play the 6th fret of the low E string when the second chord is playing. It sounds terrible. The two notes either side of it sound OK though. I think I like the sound of the 5th fret note better than the 7th fret note...' In this way you'd learn a scale, although you wouldn't be familiar with that label.

I agree with you Rayman.

I'm absolutely certain that those "pure instinct" players actually do know a lot of theory and that it is internalised in exactly the way you said.  That sort of knowledge is very hard to communicate to others though and that, to me, is the main reason for theory.  

To communicate and share musical knowledge you have to build a common vocabulary.

Dhodge wrote a good article, about planning out your solos.  He pointed out to me that all these genius solos you hear on albums arent just spontanius.  they are planned our using scales.  

One of the people i know that plays says a solos should sing right alont with your song if that makes since.

sorry for typos

Here is an anology for you:  Guitar soloing is like having a conversation.  

A young child gradually develops language.   That same child will learn language theory (the alphabet, conjugating verbs, etc...) and that same child will also build up a wealth of life experiences.  The end result is that the young child grows into a young adult who can have a meaningful confersation.

Same with guitar.  You learn some scales and develop some finger agility.  You gain some experience by learning solos from the masters as well as by jamming with your friends.  THe end result is that all of these factors become internalized in you and you can converse musically by taking solos.

Keep it up!

Andy

Andy,
Thanks.  That's encouraging.  I've been learning some solos by rote and working hard on learning some riffs and learning the  scales/modes etc.  Lately I've been feeling a lot more adventurous, and I think it's due to  the kind of thing you're describing.  I like the way you put the learning curve into words.
Tim