I've got a suggestion. Maybe we could have 3 song writing boards - Like a swimming pool with different depths.
* A beginning songwriter board where only positive encouragement is allowed.
* An intermediate board for people willing to take slightly harsher criticism.
* Then a 'give me the harsh truth' board.
Part of the problem is someone writes about their dog that got run over, I say "songs okay, but no one wants to hear a song about that", then the person freaks out because I dissed their family pet.
Or someone says, "tell me the harsh truth" then you do and they really didn't want the harsh truth.
If someone uses the 'f' word throughout a song, I think alot of us assume the person is pretty thicked skin. If that song was on the beginner board, I would have said, "good try. maybe use the 'f' word only 2 times per verse rather than 3"
Just a suggestion.
It's an idea.
Most people aren't interested in the harsh truth and I'm afraid that some will post there just to flame others work. So the value of that will be nil.
the harsh truth could be different from one person to another though..i could say i like it..and so could 100's of other people,but if one person really hates it...and expresses that they hate it,then thats 1..to 100 so really there isnt much point..just my opinion.
gaz :D
"people laugh at me because im different...i pity you..because your all the same"
sorry gaz are you for or against the idea?
It's somthing to think about.
What makes this board difficult is your not sure what people are asking for. They want your opinion, but then they don't. They express an intimate part of their life poetically then ask your opinion on that expression.
When I first came to this board a couple weeks ago I noticed everyone was saying everyone's songs were good. But some of those songs weren't. But who wants to deliver bad news to someone who wants to be praised? So I figured, what the heck, I'll deliver it. Not that I'm Bob Dylan or anything, but then who is?
Granted, some of the songs are good and need tweeking, but some of them really stink (poor grammer, no structure). Then you spend time reading their song and tiptoeing around their feelings, and they come back and say "Oh, I wrote that song in 5 minutes." Gees, I spent more time critiqueing them than they spent writing the song.
The one's that really stink and are of a highly personal matter (lost love, suicide, etc.) I steer clear of. Don't need anyone freaking out.
As far as flaming, what stops people from flaming on this board? I think the way to stop flaming on a 'give it to me straight' board would be to require all comments to have an explanation. No explanation, then the comment is yanked. No exceptions. If I say something stinks because all the words are mispelled, then that's a legitimate comment. If I don't know why something stinks, then I shouldn't say anything.
What do you guys think?
im for it nick,sorry i should have said,really people will post it into the 'give it to me straight' board if they want compliments or critisism..even in that board you could get compliments.
its a good idea metal,cos if people dont want to be 'hurt' they can post it into the other boards..
good point mate
gaz :D :D :D
"people laugh at me because im different...i pity you..because your all the same"
I don't think anybody wins when you start up a forum for 'no holds barred' comments.
1) It is hard to moderate. What exactly is too harsh for the medium level board?
2) Even the worst song writter deserves common decency.
3) If a songwritter can't handle criticism, what is that to you? If you've constructively critiqued a piece and the author disagrees, then tough for you. The rest of us will have learned something at least. You've got to let it go, man. :D Same thing if nobody else is critiquing harsh enough for your tastes.
*REVISED* 4) I think the 'deep end' forum would quickly degrade to a place where you can spout off in any inconciderate way you feel like without having to apologise.
5) If we can't hand out criticism without being obnoxious, then we should start another forum called 'Manners' where we can all learn them.
Ice cream is a dish best served cold.
I just went through all of metalworks posts and I think he has been pretty darn civilized.
Anyway, how about this....you pay me $10 and I will take the time to give you blunt, constructive criticism complete with examples.
Otherwise I think the effort is wasted....
I just went through all of metalworks posts and I think he has been pretty darn civilized.
Maybe then I'm just reading into them a harshness that isn't there then. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll revise my post.
Ice cream is a dish best served cold.
what about people that just want suggestions for their songs? I mean I want to hear what people think about what I write but usually I ask for suggestions on lines I'm not to sure about. I like the idea but thats my only question. What whould you do if you wanted suggestions...post on your choice board?
I have no problems with harsh comments , but I think have a reality board where you can say " hey Lottto King your song sucks it has no meaning no substance and the structure is woeful "
get the idea ? I'm sure you do
but after you say all that you must offer suggestions on how to fix the song so then , your work can be committed on .
if it's good for the gander then it's good for the goose :wink:
cheers
L.K :arrow:
Aghhhh
Not only am I a senior citizen
I'm now a bloody senior member
Are you people trying to tell me I'm old or what ?
over 700 posts ( I really do need to get out more )
I just went through all of metalworks posts and I think he has been pretty darn civilized.
Yeah, I did to. Metalwerk, I think your're a good criticizer. This forum needs more of your kind. The thread where I put on my bring up the kids hat and said"shame on you!", where just an exception.
Would someone go check through all of my posts for me? :lol:
Saying "your song sucks" (with or without expletives) or "your song needs a lot of work" (again, with or without expletives) is not a critique, it's a personal opinion, which is not what the composer/author wanted nor asked for. Those sort of comments have no place on the forum.
Explaining what you think is good/bad about the song IS critique and, I'm sure, welcomed by the originator, as is offering help on what can improve it. Being rude about the song is not welcome, neither by the originator nor, I suspect, anyone else.
Why make a league table of criticism? The person, posting a piece for critique, expects honest, constructive help. If you are not prepared, or able, to do that, then don't make any comment, at all. Just how rude do any of you want to be? Guitar.com rude?
Do you think anybody, looking to improve their songwriting skills, is going to throw a piece into the "rough house"? I don't think so. And who do you think is going to spend all day moderating it, to stop it degenerating into what Guitarnoise isn't and never wants to be?
Sorry, but I think it's a non-starter.
I guess I've got a problem with the 'F' word because I've got kids. I would have the same problem if someone graphically described a reproductive act (with or without explatives) and claimed 'art.' There's got to be a line drawn somewhere.
it's a personal opinion, which is not what the composer/author wanted nor asked for
What did jus_another_sin ask for?
LEMME KNOW WHT YOU PEOPLE THINK
That's at the bottom of the song. I thinks it's safe to assume the people who didn't like this song didn't like it because of the extensive use of the 'F' word. It was kind of hard to miss.
Anyhow, I think having 3 boards would be fun and constructive. At the top of the boards it can say, 'this is an experiment and if it doesn't work out, the boards will be combined back into one.' I know I'll definitely visit all three boards and I'll know exactly how to critique at all three levels. We could put guidelines that HAVE to be followed. Flaming (criticism with no valid explanation) is not allowed at any level.
Here's how the boards could be layed out:
Board 1 - Songs for beginning song writers or songs that took less than 5 minutes to write. It's a place to bounce preliminary ideas and get positive encouragement. No feelings will be hurt.
Board 2 - Songs for the thicker skinned, intermediate song writer. I've gone through 5 drafts of a song and I want some honesty. These songs stand on their own and may or may not have music to them. Grammer and spelling should be tight since those can be criticized. If a word is mispelled, it better be mispelled on purpose. If you post a song of a highly personal nature, don't expect hand holding. This is where most of my songs will go.
Board 3 - Songs that are almost ready for release. An MP3 of the song is highly encouraged. Don't post here unless you want point blank criticism. We could have a sticky with recording instructions like 'buy a $10 mic for your soundcard and sing the song using windows media player if you don't have a band yet.' Another sticky could list all the current song contests and tips for winning. Another sticky could describe how to put together your own CD with tips on distribution.
I'll volunteer to admin any of the boards if that's needed. I think it would be a hoot. If everyone posts on board 1, then we remove boards 2 and 3 and go back to the old way.
What do you guys think?
