Any classical pianokeyboard players out there?...

Hey,
Not that I'm bored of guitar but I have a question about classical pianokeyboards:

Is a 61 key (5 octave) keyboard, adquate for classical piano playing? I know its not ideal... But is it still good enough? I dont wanna find, once I start getting good, that it simply won't do...I mean I wanna get to playing the more technical stuff.

Could I just work my way around it by playing in other octaves or will that be a bit crap?...I dont really know anythingaout playing painokeyboard let alone specially classical :?:

...Oh and is the Yamaha PSR-E203 any good??? Thx

Hi, Simon,

I can't really help much with the range question, but aren't most 61 key keyboards sort of synth style MIDI controllers? Lacking hammer weighted action and touch sensitivity?
If that's the case, you'd probably find that a greater frustration than the lack of range.
I have a Roland RD 600; 88 weighted keys and tremendous touch sensitivity and even then there's no mistaking it for a real piano (at least when I play it!).

61 keys are like arranging/composing keyboards. You might want to get at least a 72 key keyboard - esp if you want to get into classical music.

Also, note that some keyboards have 'weighted' action, meaning they have an internal escapement (action) that is the same as a real piano. The keys feel heavier when you press them down, and the faster you press (or harder you press) the more dynamics you can achieve. One's like your example have keys that are more just like an organ - on/off, with some added after-touch pressure sensitive electronic action going on.

If you want to really get into classical piano, then you might want to get something similar to these shown:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation?q=piano

But if you want to just study classical pieces and aren't worried about becoming 'a pianist' then you could probably go with unweighted keys.

72 keys would probably be okay, but though not every classical piece used the entire range of a regular piano (88 keys), a lot of them take advantage of that wider range. I think earlier music, like stuff written on harpsichord, had a narrower range, though I think the composers of the time liked the wider range when they'd be up late at night trying to work out parts ;)

As Boxboy said, hammer weighted-action is extremely important for classical piano, don't even bother with a non or semi-weighted keybord. Apart from that, no, 61 keys is not enough for many classical pieces. Plenty of pieces by people like Chopin and Mozart include wide arpeggios that just can't be played that way. The Yamaha PSR is a great starters-keybord, but not for aspiring classical pianists. To start out with check this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Casio-CDP100-88-Note-Weighted-Hammer-Action-Digital-Piano?sku=706083

Not perfect but is by far superior to all keybords and it doesn't cost that much. Hook it up to a nice VST like The Grand or Ivory if you need a higher soundquality. MIDI is your friend! For $100 you can get the one I have: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Casio-PX110-88Key-Privia-Digital-Piano?sku=706075

It's quite the same but the samples have been sampled at three different dynamic levels. Which means that the speed with which you press the keys not only influence volume but also timbre, simulating a real piano better. In any case, be aware that playing digital is quite different from playing a real piano, espescially in terms of pedaling technique and the use string resonance. It still allows you to practice fairly properly (which a keybord won't!) but a real piano would, ultimately, be best.

Apart from weighted keys (most entry-level digitals have weighted keys that do NOT respond the same as a real piano!) you also have 'graded' keys. This means the bass requires more strength then the top keys, as with a grand piano. I personally prefer it but it's a matter of taste. When it comes to pedals you have either two or three. When two you've got the 'piano/soft' pedal on the left, and the sustain pedal on the right. The last pedal means that if you press a key that note will sound as long as you keep the pedal down (to a certain extent) whereas otherwise the note dies when you de-press the key. On a grand, and many digitals, you also have a third pedal. This one allows you to sustain some notes while plaing un-sustained lines as well. This is an advanced technique that is not often used at all. Nice to have, but don't worry. If need be you can always add it with a MIDI pedal afterwards, if you use sample libraries.

Damn piao sure aint cheap :cry:
By an £80 guitar and you'll comfortaly get by as a beginner
Then piano you gotta fork out like £250?! :( :evil:

Yup. And you better do it. I started on a Yamaha keybord, in retrospect it would have been better to not have done anything till I got the digital. Keybords destroy your piano technique.

Apart from that, no, 61 keys is not enough for many classical pieces. Plenty of pieces by people like Chopin and Mozart include wide arpeggios that just can't be played that way.

That's not true. At least not of Mozart.

Mozart died in 1791. No keyboard instruments had more than 61 keys until 1790, when John Broadwood and company started producing models with 66.

You can play ALL harpsichord music on a 61 key layout (they've never had more than that), and all piano music composed during the baroque and early to middle classical eras. Once you reach the romantic era (Beethoven, Chopin, etc.) you run into trouble.

Depending on what you mean by 'classical' music, here's what you need:

49 keys for anything composed before 1709
61 keys is enough for anything originally composed for harpsichord
66 keys for anything before 1794
73 keys takes you to about 1824*
85 keys for music to 1850
88 keys for stuff written after 1870

*Beethoven is the exception; he owned two 73 key pianos made earlier, and did write for them - but nobody else could play the compositions for awhile! Beethoven before 1803 is always safe for 66 keys, though.

Now if you want to get extreme, have $90 grand to spend, and have your heart set on the biggest baddest Boesendorfer you can find... you need

92 keys for music after 1908
97 keys for music after 1969

If you need to be practical about it, you can play all of the standard repertoire of the baroque era with 61 keys, and almost all of the classical and romatic eras with 66. Even when the keyboards got bigger, most composers stuck with the older range. If you want to get into some 20th century stuff like Bartok, you'll want 88.

Great stuff noteboat. 8)