Are acoustics SUPPOSED to be harder to play?

Nils...I realy think the acoustic does NOT need a setup...Like I mentioned before....I CAN"T even get the pick between the 6th string and the 1st fret..yes it might be a tiny bit high at the 12th fret but not that much to justify $40 for a setup...

It is your choice Mike but the acoustic is almost twice the optimal height at the 12th and believe me that is alot.

Try going to 11's and see if it improves it.

I'm assuming your just a beginner, if not sorry, eventually you'll get strength in your fingers and unless your action is sky high you'll still be able to play so keep at it.

Take Nils advice, I lowered my acoustic to about 3/32 and it helped enormously.

If you do nothing, the accoustic stays tough. If you get lighter strings you'll need a setup anyway. So get a setup. :D

I know I probably should let this go but I just can't. Here is a picture of the first fret and how close the strings are. It really can't get any closer without buzzing. I am having problems pushing the strings even at the first fret. So what I am saying isthat it HAS to be the strings that are making it tough (they are .012's). Now if I was only having problems farther down closer to the 12th fret then I'd say it was DEFINITELY a setup. I hope you understand my logic. Yes I probably need a setup but that WILL NOT make the strings EASIER to push. The strings themselves feel like they don't want to bend. While on my electric they bend like butter. At the first fret the strings feel like they just don't want to move.

Here is the 12th fret:

I hope I did a better job at explaining this time. I know that I need a setup to make the action lower at the 12th fret. But a lack of a setup doesn't make the strings harder to push. It means you have to push them farther which in turn makes it harder to hold the strings down but not harder to push down.

But a lack of a setup doesn't make the strings harder to push. It means you have to push them farther which in turn makes it harder to hold the strings down but not harder to push down.

If that were true then you could push a string with each end firmly set a mile with the same strength that it takes to push it 3/64 of an inch. Yes an over exageration towards obsurdity to prove a point. The further the string has to move the more pounds of pressure that is required to move it. Even if it is fractions of a pound. You will feel it after playing a while. Think of string bending. Instead of bending towards the fretboard you bend across it. 1/2 step is no problem. A full step requires more force behind the string and 1 1/2 steps might require 2 extra fingers behind the string because you are moving it farther, therefore requiring more pounds of force.

Get the set ups done. The guitars will play like "butta" afterwards.

Mike

The further the string has to move the more pounds of pressure that is required to move it.

I did a little calculation to find out the force to depress a string at the twelfth fret. For a given note, string length and string density, the force you need is proportional to
d^2 h
Where d is the string diameter and h is the distance you depress the string. If you plug in some numbers, you find that given the relatively narrow range of string sizes, reducing the distance between string and fret by a factor of nearly 2 will affect the applied force way more than a string change can.

(The actual formula is F = 4 pi rho L f^2 d^2 h, where rho is the string density, L is string length, and f is the string frequency, if anyone cares. Also, my model could be wrong, so don't quote me, but it seems to make qualitative sense)

Yeah, 12s can be tough if you're used to electric.
Do take the guitar to someone you can trust and ask them to set it up with the silk and steel Martin or GHS. By the time you've switched gauge and string type you'll have changed the tension on the neck anyways.
I'm not sure of American prices but $40 sounds a tad low.

PS
Just checking...
Did you peek inside? Sometimes truss rods are hard to see in acoustics.

Mike: That hardly matters since you cannot throw lighter strings on them without getting a setup. Changing string gauge will mess-up whatever good/bad setup you currently have. Try it, I'd dare to say you'll get fretbuzz all over the place when dropping from 12 to 11. So if you really want lighter strings decide on how light, get them and then have the guitar setup for light strings. Its either that or no changes at all.

And yes, spending $50 on a setup sounds like a huge ammount. heck, it is a huge amount. I usually do my own setups but once in a while I bring it to someone qualified. It justs helps more then you can possibly think.

But a lack of a setup doesn't make the strings harder to push. It means you have to push them farther which in turn makes it harder to hold the strings down but not harder to push down.

If that were true then you could push a string with each end firmly set a mile with the same strength that it takes to push it 3/64 of an inch. Yes an over exageration towards obsurdity to prove a point. The further the string has to move the more pounds of pressure that is required to move it. Even if it is fractions of a pound. You will feel it after playing a while. Think of string bending. Instead of bending towards the fretboard you bend across it. 1/2 step is no problem. A full step requires more force behind the string and 1 1/2 steps might require 2 extra fingers behind the string because you are moving it farther, therefore requiring more pounds of force.

Get the set ups done. The guitars will play like "butta" afterwards.

Mike

Basically correct. Within a reasonable limit of range, it takes twice as much force to move the string twice as far. This applies very well to fretting forces, and not quite as well to bending -- which tends to get disproportionally more difficult.

I didn't read the entire thread, but another factor often forgotten: With proper setup, heavier strings can often be set lower than can light strings on the same guitar. This compensates significantly for much of the additional tension in heavier strings. The reason is pretty simple, for the same energy/time = power => acoustic loudness, heavier strings do not undergo as much lateral displacement during vibration. So heavy strings need less clearance from the frets to prevent buzzing. Again, this will not help in bending, but is the reason many jazzer's archtops with really heavy gauge strings can actually be quite easy to play.

OK...to appease the gods :lol: :lol: :lol: I have taken both of my guitars in for a setup. It turns out that Daddy's Junky Music Store by me does basic setups for only $20 and this includes strings, innotation, neck adjustment, bridge adjustment, etc. If it needs things like fret filing and other more time consuming things it will cost more. The guy said my acoustic only needed a minor neck adjustment and possible a slight bridge adjustment (I am going with .011's on this). I even took my Behringer in thinking he would just laugh at me but he did say they are not bad guitars for the price. I asked if they carry Behringer products and he said "If we did then all we would sell is Behringer stuff!" meaning that they are inexpensive and not bad for the money...plus he did mention they have a contract with Fender and they are strict about what other companies they can carry. I am going with .09's on the electric (same as what I had...explains why it was so much easier!) I thought lights were lights when it came to strings but the clerk there took the time to explain that lights in electric are not the same as lights in acoustics.

The sweet part is (besides the price) if they were not busy he actually might get the them both finished before this evening! If not at least the acoustic will be done by tonight! All the other places wanted me to leave it there for like 3 days! Now I am sure they would do a more thorough setup but this guy seemed cool and like he knew what he was doing...so I guess for $20 its worth the chance!

If you went to a small local shop chances are your guitar will get much more attention. Regardless of how soon he expects to be done.

If you went to a small local shop chances are your guitar will get much more attention. Regardless of how soon he expects to be done.

Boy it seems I can't do ANYTHING right!

Sorry, should have put that icon behind it, was just messing with you...
So here it is:

;)

I'm sure you'll be darn sure you did the right thing when you get that thing in your hands.