Band... hmmm...

Lars,

Hmm it's a tough one. I could understand how you want your songs to sound the way you've heard them in your head and it must be tough when they don't sound that why. It's hard to say what to do.

I guess you have to ask yourself what really gives you the most enjoyment. If it's playing your own songs the way you want them to be played you may have to leave the current group and look for some new players.

If just playing out gives you the most enjoyment then continue with the group and play covers.

Or you can continue with the current group and try to start a side project with other musicians to play your own songs. The problem with that maybe finding musicians that just want to play your songs.

I don't think you have to be too concerned by your skill level I've heard you and it's fine.

One thing I have learned is that there really needs to be a leader otherwise things kind of just go in circles which I've been doing for the last several months. Sure there are rare occasions where everyone shares in the decisions but that doesn't always work well.

Giving advice to others especially in a situation like this can be difficult. I mean no ones getting paid (at least I don't think)so there's a fine line on how far you can go with each member. Some will have thick skins and can take constructive criticism some you'll have to be a little more delicate with and it's really a psychological game.

Besides just giving them chord sheets etc have ever just said that you don't feel the songs are being played the way you like them to be played. Sometimes just giving them chord sheets and bass lines isn't enough, you really need to make sure they understand what is not working.

In the group I'm in now it's basically a bunch of friends and even if we suck I'm not looking to replace anyone we are in it together even if there are times when I get frustrated. Heck there isn't any of that couldn't be replaced by better musicains but to me it won't be as much fun to play with strangers at least not for awhile.

I guess the more I think about it is I would stick with the current group and see if you can open up a dialogue with them about your concerns and see if the get it.

Good luck!

Will have a think on this and get back to ya hon. Wish I could take a listen to some of your tracks while doing so though. Can you upload some to youtube? That's all I'm getting in terms of tintynet sound right now.

I agree with cnev though - there's nothing wrong with having more than one project on the go.

well, 1st of all, don't be intimidated to ask them to do something. don't make it a big deal. just ask like you'd ask someone to pass you the butter. and talk about the songs, how you think they'll feel and how you'd like them presented. but realistically, there are probably a few weak spots in some of your songs, or at least things that they can do better. maybe you want a funky beat but don't have anything solid in your head. then it's up to the rhythm section to come up with something cool.

ideally, you want to be in a band with people whose musical abilities you respect, and allow them to have creative input. they don't all have to have the same background, and in fact you can end up with surprising mixes that work really well. but unless you're britney spears or the jonas brothers or some corporate backed product, it's unrealistic to expect a professional backing band to just do what you want and get it perfect from day one. that's not fun. it's just work. at the same time, if they don't have anything to add, you shouldn't be afraid to let them know what you're hearing.

after that it's just a lot of practice until it gets tight.

also, there's nothing wrong with playing covers. it's fun, keeps the chops tight, and lets you figure out each others' strengths.$

Thanks -

Maybe I should be a little tougher. Surely we are going in circles like you say Cnev. I mean, if you're not able to learn the songs, at least it should be possible to expect that you bring and find sheets for the right song? ... I should try to be more direct with some demands. - 'Cause yes, I would really like to play with them. We are not aiming for anything big obviously. Some paid gigs a few times a year or something.

Jason - you are right. Especially with the drummer, I don't really know what to ask for. I know when I hear how I don't want it to be, but I can't tell him whhat to play.

Patience and practice and maybe a side project?

And Sara - check my signature ;)
- or is it only youtube you can listten to?? Here is one direct link http://6-string.net/music/shegaveme.mp3

listening to your myspace. the band stuff is all sloppy and has no energy and just sounds bad. the solo stuff is alright. what is that clicking on smilet ditt, though? sleeve buttons clicking on the guitar? anyway, have you considered just doing solo stuff or with one other guitar player until you find people that fit you better? maybe finding guys with some kind of jazz background?

Thanks - I've done all of it myself - but then I'm a guitar player.

The clicking is a 'Son Clave' made with some poor drum software.

One approach that may help bring things together is, in addition to telling the other band members about your ideas, solicit their input as well. Everybody likes to be involved in making decisions, and if your bandmates feel like they have had the opportunity to contribute thier ideas to the overall sound of a piece, they will naturally take more ownership and also be more receptive to what you have to say.

Sure, they may not be as accomplished musically as you, but still you may be surprised and get a few good ideas. I realize that they are your songs and you probably have in mind a specific kind of sound for them, but being a little flexible and allowing some input might at times resolt in some good ideas you hadn't considered and even some stronger arrangements. And even if you don't get many good ideas, at least your bandmates will feel more involved in it and be willing to work with you on your stuff.

Just food for thought.

I've written a majority of the music for our band's songs and I can identify with what you are feeling. The first couple I wrote, I spent hours recording each part and presenting a finished demo song to the group. Then, the lead guitarist changed the riff a tiny bit, the drummer didn't like starting the song w/ drums, so the guitarist started it w/ the riff, the singer wanted to change some of the lyrics, etc. Now, when we play that song, I like it more than my original. It sounds like a Spookhand song, not a Jeff song. Now, I just do rough sketches for the songs. I record the guitar riff, throw some basic drums on there, cause our drummer is going to play whatever he wants anyway and call it a day.

The situation you are describing isn't a band, you're a singer-songwriter and they are your backing band. You either need to relax on your vision of your songs and let them contribute, write "band" songs and keep your solo stuff solo, or change to a cover band.

as Jeff describes, sometimes group composition/arranging works ... then again, many times it does not. in any case, you own the song, and should feel you have the right to arrange it, rearrange it or even withdraw it from the band/playlist. there are many contrived ways to do this, but an honest "this is not what I had in mind. let's drop it for now and let me think about what I want" is probably a good way to go. unless you want someone else to assume responsibility, be assertive about controlling your works. you will be happier with the result.

yeah...if I figure it out, I'll let you know.

Hi Lars,

It can be tough trying to get others to do what you can hear clearly in your own head.... :?
I've written a majority of the music for our band's songs and I can identify with what you are feeling. The first couple I wrote, I spent hours recording each part and presenting a finished demo song to the group.

I really like the sound of Jeff's whole post. Thorough, but flexible too. I'd definitely want to hear a tight version as well - so recording it yourself (as you apparently already do) seems like a good way to go. Just to know that a version exists that sounds close to what I wanted would be a big step. If it was never quite nailed live, well... I could probably learn to live with that. Many big name bands never match their recordings when they play live either.

I'm currently mediocre, or worse, in all departments, but while I plunk slowly forwards on guitar, piano, etc I've also got 'Master the Recording Software' on my list of ambitions. Because, track by track, take by take, note by note if needs be you can assembly a fine arrangement, provided that you know how to fully use the amazing power of today's music software.

When you say "This is what we're aiming at guys..." just as you would if you were bringing in a CD of something else you wanted to cover - you won't ever get 100%, but then you won't with the other covers either. It'll probably always just be a little more irritating because your own stuff means a lot to you. And there's always next year, when you're all that bit better... :)

Good luck with it.

Cheers,

Chris

Thanks - I've done all of it myself - but then I'm a guitar player.

The clicking is a 'Son Clave' made with some poor drum software.

i'm sorry. i thought that the band stuff was what you weren't happy with. i really liked the stuff that was just guitars or guitars and vocals, though.

Especially when it comes to my own songs, I'm never happy with how we play them. lars

Gidday, Lars! THIS is the essence of becoming a worthy songster! Stick to your guns...

Cat

I write most songs in my band, and I usually just let the other band members make up their parts, but they are better musician's than I am.