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GUILD -GAD 30RE - Any feelings on the matter?

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(@gadlaw)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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Hi there. I'm sort of looking hard at another guitar. I've a Blueridge BG-60 and am looking at this Guild. Inventory reduction time you know. To show you how dinglebatted I am, I didn't even know it had a pickup in it at the bottom. I like the space difference from the Blueridge between the strings, what little fingerpicking I know and tried when I sat it on my lap sort of amazed me. You know, no fingers finding the wrong strings. I don't think it was me suddenly being better. To my ears it doesn't ring as well as my Blueridge but I'm partial to my Blue. I played and listened to a Blue 143 which didn't ring for me, and a number of other Guilds which sounded a bit dry. Dry as compared to the Blue if that makes any sense. There was a Blue three or four weeks ago that rang like a bell but nothing since that one which of course sold. And even if it was there I'd still be at the 'wider strings/fatter neck vs closer strings/thinner neck thing. Ahh, well if I had a completely solid feel of this I wouldn't be posting. Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

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(@artlutherie)
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Next time you try the Guild see if they'll put new strings on for you. You don't know how many sweaty hands have held it. I've played 3 or 4 Guilds including the one your looking at and they were all beautiful sounding.

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(@afterblast)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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imho guild makes awsome guitars. My dad has an acoustic that is about 30 years old and it sounds awsome. :D
just my 2 cents

wherever you go, there you are.


   
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(@the-dali)
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Guild did make awesome guitars 30 years ago. Just keep in mind the new ones are made in China, so comparing anything made by Guild more than 5 years ago to today's instruments isn't apples to apples.

I still can't believe they (Fender) are making Guild guitars in China...

-=- Steve

"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"


   
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(@gadlaw)
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Topic starter  

Next time you try the Guild see if they'll put new strings on for you. You don't know how many sweaty hands have held it. I've played 3 or 4 Guilds including the one your looking at and they were all beautiful sounding.

Thank you kindly. I've heard the guitar, as well as a number of other Guilds and a Blueridge 143. It does sound the best of the bunch and I'm not sure about the age of the strings on it. I'm glad to hear that your ears heard what I think I'm hearing. (but not sure of considering the lack of critical listening I've done) This is what I was looking to hear- other folks having good things to say about the instrument. :-)

Enjoy your karma, after all you earned it.
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(@gadlaw)
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Topic starter  

Guild did make awesome guitars 30 years ago. Just keep in mind the new ones are made in China, so comparing anything made by Guild more than 5 years ago to today's instruments isn't apples to apples.

I still can't believe they (Fender) are making Guild guitars in China...

Well, my Blueridge is made in China and I love it to death. Disinterested professional guitar players I've talked with are amazed at the quality and sound that I have with my Blue. Right now I'd have to give the nod to Chinese quality in terms of their handbuilt guitars so that the Guild is built in China is a plus as far as I'm concerned. And in the end it still comes down to what you can hear and how it looks to your eyes. 8)

Enjoy your karma, after all you earned it.
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(@kent_eh)
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... Just keep in mind the new ones are made in China
....I still can't believe they (Fender) are making Guild guitars in China...
Not to pick on you, specifically, The Dali Lima - I've heard similar from a lot of others - but what is so critically important about the location of the factory?

It seems that the prevailing opinion is that "quality" isn't possible if something is made in {insert asian/south american country here}.

I understand that a lot of companies set up factories offshore to cut costs, because "a good wage" is much less in those countries.
But is it automatic that there is a difference in workmanship between a "well paid" local factory worker, and a "well paid" third world factory worker?

A piece of art can be made by a Chinese craftsman, and a piece of crap can be made by an American workshop drone. (and vice-versa)

Hmmm, that turned into more of a rant than I originally intended.
:oops: Sorry about that. :oops:

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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(@the-dali)
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I do have an issue with buying from a Communist country like China. However...

From a strict guitar-point-of-view, the quality of guitars made around the world is quite stunning in comparison to 15 years ago. There is no question that the location of the origin of the instrument is becoming more and more irrelevent.

BUT, there is no question that the guitars being manufactured in China, India, and Indonesia are inferior in most cases to the guitars manuafactured in USA, Korea, Japan, Mexico, and to a lesser extent Canada and Europe. The reason? The people in those countries have only been making guitars for the last few years. The people in the established guitar-making countries have been making guitars for 10+ years.

I also call into question the woods and materials being used in these "low end" guitar manufacturing countries. Surely if the making of the guitar is being outsourced to China, the components are also of inferior quality? I don't know what kind of trees there are in China - I've never been there. There could be fantastic mighty mahogany trees in China that are used for these export guitars, but I find it unlikely.

Anyway... I don't have a big issue with guitars being manufactured in other countries, although I do have an issue with buying goods and services from countries that hate the US, and have ideaologies that are in direct contrast with my own (and my friends in NA and Europe).

Furthermore, I think it is sickening to take an American music icon like the "Guild" name and cheapen it. I mean what has Fender done? It has outsourced the manufacturing of the guitar to a foreign company - perhaps Samick - and slapped together an import guitar and used the name badge. Why? Because most people associate HIGH END instruments with the Guild name. Why build up a new name when you can just re-brand an old one? To take that reputation and start building musical instruments with an inexperienced workforce, in a communist country that blatantly utilizes censorship of ideas and thoughts - the hallmark of music - just makes me ill.

Anyway... my rant isn't specifically with guitars made in China (although it kinda is) but really more about what Fender is doing with the Guild nameplate.

Ok - and to add on... the reason I even mentioned the China thing was that the previous post mentioned "my dad owned a Guild for 30 years... great guitars..." My point originally was that you cannot compare the "Guild" guitar with what is being made today. Two totally different manufacturers. One happened to be in Westerly RI and the other in CHINA.

-=- Steve

"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"


   
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(@kent_eh)
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The reason? The people in those countries have only been making guitars for the last few years. The people in the established guitar-making countries have been making guitars for 10+ years.

That makes a lot of sense.
Experience really is a major component of craftsmanship.

And, I've never understood, either, why any company (including the one I work for**) spends years building a reputation, and then starts using that reputation to sell shoddy products.
** I'm a repair tech, not in sales or marketing. Don't throw stones

And, just to say it again, I wasn't trying to call you (specifically) out on this, it's just that your post happened to be handy when I felt my mini-rant coming on.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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(@gadlaw)
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Topic starter  

I do have an issue with buying from a Communist country like China. However...

From a strict guitar-point-of-view, the quality of guitars made around the world is quite stunning in comparison to 15 years ago. There is no question that the location of the origin of the instrument is becoming more and more irrelevent.

BUT, there is no question that the guitars being manufactured in China, India, and Indonesia are inferior in most cases to the guitars manuafactured in USA, Korea, Japan, Mexico, and to a lesser extent Canada and Europe. The reason? The people in those countries have only been making guitars for the last few years. The people in the established guitar-making countries have been making guitars for 10+ years.

I also call into question the woods and materials being used in these "low end" guitar manufacturing countries. Surely if the making of the guitar is being outsourced to China, the components are also of inferior quality? I don't know what kind of trees there are in China - I've never been there. There could be fantastic mighty mahogany trees in China that are used for these export guitars, but I find it unlikely.

Anyway... I don't have a big issue with guitars being manufactured in other countries, although I do have an issue with buying goods and services from countries that hate the US, and have ideaologies that are in direct contrast with my own (and my friends in NA and Europe).

Furthermore, I think it is sickening to take an American music icon like the "Guild" name and cheapen it. I mean what has Fender done? It has outsourced the manufacturing of the guitar to a foreign company - perhaps Samick - and slapped together an import guitar and used the name badge. Why? Because most people associate HIGH END instruments with the Guild name. Why build up a new name when you can just re-brand an old one? To take that reputation and start building musical instruments with an inexperienced workforce, in a communist country that blatantly utilizes censorship of ideas and thoughts - the hallmark of music - just makes me ill.

Anyway... my rant isn't specifically with guitars made in China (although it kinda is) but really more about what Fender is doing with the Guild nameplate.

Ok - and to add on... the reason I even mentioned the China thing was that the previous post mentioned "my dad owned a Guild for 30 years... great guitars..." My point originally was that you cannot compare the "Guild" guitar with what is being made today. Two totally different manufacturers. One happened to be in Westerly RI and the other in CHINA.

Ah, where to begin. You mentioned that you can't compare a Guild built 30 years ago with one built today. Well, actually you can compare them. You just compare them. Sit them side by side, play each one, examine the workmanship on each one. Weigh the factors that go into each one and come to a comparison based on what you know about the quality and sound of a guitar. You can ask the advice of other guitar experts/enthusiasts/players what their opinions are and ask them to compare the two. So it's possible to compare. If you are saying the factors are different well then that's true whether a guitar is built in a different country or on the next bench over, never mind that a guitar built from a different wood lot number in a different week, month or year by machine and by hand by the same guy or guys/gals or different people is going to be different no matter what other factors are figured in. You can make generalizations based on the collective experience of many people with regards to a manufacturer - good or bad materials, workmanship and so on. You can say that your 30 year old Guild is a great instrument and you can also say that based on your experience the ones made today are good/bad/great/fair or whatever. Based on absolutely no information about a guitar other than that it was made in Rhode Island or in China allows only that fact to be assumed, not the relative quality and worth of each instrument.

As for Guild using the name Guild to sell guitars made in China, well in the guitar store I frequent the Guilds in question are mentioned as being made in China. And this is a good thing since in their experience the quality of instruments made in China has been exceptional. In fact, where a guitar is made is a big part of the discussion about each and every guitar. Strats are priced and bought based in large part on where they are built, whether it's Made in Mexico (MIM) strats, Indonesian strats called Squier's and made in America strats with the highest price tag. Now, if the guitars coming from Guild, or Martin or where and whomever are being made in Mexico, China, Japan or elsewhere and the quaility goes down - the worth of the name brand goes down and the amount of money they can sell their guitars for goes down. Sometimes this dance results in the crash of a name brand and the company gets it's reward in the marketplace by going away. If enough people think that the company who owns the name brand have put the good name on a bad product then it's all over.

When you say
"" BUT, there is no question that the guitars being manufactured in China, India, and Indonesia are inferior in most cases to the guitars manuafactured in USA, Korea, Japan, Mexico, and to a lesser extent Canada and Europe. The reason? The people in those countries have only been making guitars for the last few years. The people in the established guitar-making countries have been making guitars for 10+ years.""
I would disagree with you. I know that by design and by price point the Indonesian Squiers are lesser quality than MIM or US Strats but I hear people who swear by the quality of those guitars. I know for a fact that I've seen and heard high quality Chinese built instruments and I've heard some god awful American made guitars. I think that the quality of guitars made has less to do with the length of time guitars have been made in a country and more on the skill of the workers and their training in the manufacture of instruments. A country may have ten plus years of experience and every person who was making guitars has switched over to making Tiki lamps while green inexperienced workers are now manning the workshops. The country where a guitar crafting factory/shop has opened up might have people who decided to open a shop and import/train people of sufficient quality to make beautiful instruments. Perhaps they have made a buisiness decision that the best way to build a business is to actually try to build quality instruments. Again, this is a product where the proof is in the instrument and comes down to you picking it up and trying it out unless you want to buy one of those 150 dollar boxed guitars at Wal-Mart and I remember some of them being Yamaha's - from Japan.

Anyway... I don't have a big issue with guitars being manufactured in other countries, although I do have an issue with buying goods and services from countries that hate the US, and have ideaologies that are in direct contrast with my own (and my friends in NA and Europe). Well, everybody hates us. Europeans hate us, Canadians hate us, Haitians hate us, Mexicans hate us, everybody hates us. We even hate us. Based on that logic you can't buy anything from anyone. I don't know what American manufacturers of guitars are in Northern California, perhaps Carvin, but I'm not going to take into much consideration whether or not to buy a Carvin guitar based on the Berkley or Oakland city councils who called for impeachment of Bush and who called American foreign policy illegal. I'm not going to buy a guitar from Plano Texas if they don't make a good guitar no matter how many flags and parades they have. As for ideologies, it depends on what those are. If it has anything to do with things like free speech and such, well then there are only 19 or so countries you could buy from since in a recent list of press/free speech the US came in 20th. :)

Enjoy your karma, after all you earned it.
http://www.gadlaw.com


   
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(@nephidoc)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 28
 

Wow!!!
Politics and other rants aside....
I have a Guild GAD-40C and love it.
I would put it on par with my Larrivee and Martin.
It has an incredible tone and built like a tank.
It booms out like a Dred should.
I picked it up off Flea-Bay for around $300.
Nuf said.

Stan


   
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(@the-dali)
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I hear about the comparison - my point was that you couldn't generalize that since the 30-year-old Guild was awesome, then these new Guild's are awesome too.

In terms of quality... you have to look at it from a macro-level. No question that the same plant in location A can produce good guitars and bad guitars. It depends on the worker, the time of day, how they feel, etc... but you can make generalities around the quality of a plant based on a larger sample. Plant A may produce 80 good guitars for every 5 bad. Conversely, Plant B may produce 50 good for every 20 bad... Doesn't mean you can't get a good guitar from plant B, you are just taking more of a risk.

Listen... I know if is tempting to buy 100 guitars at $300 because the quality is so good now-a-days. In addition, I realize that 75% of the goods on the shelves these days are made in the far east. I can also tell you from experience that 75% of that 75% is of inferior quality to what you could get from other areas of the world.
Anyway... this is too political. My initial point was don't buy a Guild made in 2005 because it says Guild on the headstock. Buy a Guild because you like the guitar. Fender wants you to buy the guitar because it says Guild.

Just think about this... if 75% of the stuff we buy is from China... what do you think the impact of that commerce might be over the next 40 years? Hmmm... all our manufacturing is gone... our service jobs are being outsourced to other countries... we are buying products from China so they are getting the money we have... so what happens to our economy? Just something to think about

-=- Steve

"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"


   
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(@the-dali)
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By the way... I apologize... I'm not a raving political lunatic... my rant here is mis-placed.

I guess I just feel that buying musical instruments from an oppressive communist country somehow goes against the fundamental believe systems of muscians.

-=- Steve

"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"


   
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(@the-dali)
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Gadlaw... you stated:

"Again, this is a product where the proof is in the instrument and comes down to you picking it up and trying it out unless you want to buy one of those 150 dollar boxed guitars at Wal-Mart and I remember some of them being Yamaha's - from Japan. "

I guarantee you that Yamaha ain't from Japan. It might say "Yamaha" but it is probably made in Indonesia or China. Yamaha and those big Japanese companies do the same thing. Pick up ANYTHING made by Sony. Ain't made in Japan no more...

-=- Steve

"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"


   
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(@gadlaw)
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Posts: 218
Topic starter  

Wow!!!
Politics and other rants aside....
I have a Guild GAD-40C and love it.
I would put it on par with my Larrivee and Martin.
It has an incredible tone and built like a tank.
It booms out like a Dred should.
I picked it up off Flea-Bay for around $300.
Nuf said.

Stan

Thanks much for the Guild info. I did jump on the Guild and all is good. :)

Enjoy your karma, after all you earned it.
http://www.gadlaw.com


   
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