Guitar brand "hierarchy", ranking brands by "

Brand name rankings are matters of price point and marketing. Differences in "quality" become very subjective.

Brand name rankings are matters of price point and marketing. Differences in "quality" become very subjective.
translation~ buy Agile!

translation~ buy Agile!Works for me. :lol:

You want an acoustic in the $500-$700 range?

You can get a Martin 000-16GT, or I saw a Gibson Blue Ridge or WM-45 acoustic recently in that ballpark.

New you should look at Larrivee or the Seagull Artist line or the entry level Martins or Taylors.

Agile AL 3000 here... havent touched my Baretta since i laid hands on that thing..... for the money...you guys...ohmygawd...you guys.

Well now, he did specifically ask about acoustic guitars.

It's fair to talk about relative quality between Squier and Fender, or between Epiphone and Gibson, because those distinctions are real - the same manufacturer has both brands, and designs the materials and processes so that one is a higher end product than the other.

Where quality comparisons aren't fair is between manufacturers... it's like saying Chevy is better than Ford, or vice versa. Are you talking about a Camaro vs. a Pinto, or a Mustang vs. a Suburban? Every manufacturer has a range of products, with a wide range of materials and design specs. The upper reaches of low-end brands can be far superior to the bottom rung of a 'top' brand name.

Rather than rank brands against each other, I'd go to the store and try a lot of instruments. Which ones feel good?

Figure out what makes them feel good... neck profile? Scale length? Body depth? Balance of weight? String spacing? If you find ten guitars that are comfortable, you'll probaby find that six or eight share some characteristics... so put those on your shopping checklist.

Now figure out which ones sound good... and why. Don't limit yourself to the ones that felt good - you're just looking for tone. Is it the soundhole/ports configuration? The bracing? The top tonewood? These features also go on the checklist.

Figure out if any other features are important to you - do you want one that's capable of being plugged in, with a piezo pickup? Do you favor guitars with an upper strap button on the body? Put these factors on your 'nice to have' list.

You'll end up with a list of features that are important in making your decision. Some of the 'best' models may not meet any of your requirements. If you like a wide neck, short scale length, shallow body, and strong treble tone, a Martin D28 is not for you - having a certain name on the headstock really isn't fair trade-off for a guitar that isn't really what you want in an instrument.

If you're lucky, you'll have a dozen or more guitars that meet all your physical requirements - and then you can start comparing relative quality between models.

What I find happens in this process is that somewhere along the journey of narrowing down exactly what I want from a specific instrument, I'll pick up one in a music store and it screams "buy me!" as soon as I play it :)

Figure out what makes them feel good... neck profile? Scale length? Body depth? Balance of weight? String spacing?

Now figure out which ones sound good... and why.

These are some of the things that, as a beginner, I'm still having a lot of trouble with.

I'm still green enough that holding and plating a guitar doesn't feel "natural" yet.
Being able to feel what makes a good guitar seems to me to be , at least partly, something that is gained with experience.

And the same for sound. My ear is still learning to recognise the subtleties between (for instance) A, Am and A7.
I'm sure at some point I'll be able to hear the difference between a "real" Strat and a decent copy, but that time isn't here yet.

I'm not sure I have a point here, maybe just that it's not so easy for us "new kids" to know if we're picking out a good guitar.

If they all don't feel natural, that could be an issue - but some might feel less un-natural than others.

For the ears, I'd recommend you take someone else who plays along on your shopping trips for the first couple of purchases. You can better evaluate the sound when you're not thinking about how to play - and guitars sound different from the front of the soundhole than they do in playing position!

when you approach the 750$ range in acoustics pretty much any brand will be a good playing guitar.
however, subjectivity enters.
meaning, get the guitar that feels good in your hands. can you nail those notes? do barre chords sound and feel good? is the guitar generally a bright sounding guitar or does it have a boomy bottom end. whcih do you prefer?
then look at the wood grain and type of woods. is the guitar heavy or light? which do you prefer.?

thats my 2 cents.

While I agree that discussing guitars and their quality is difficult to do, I disagree that a discussion cannot be had on the grounds of price. While discussing specific prices in relation to quality may not be reasonable (is this $150 guitar worse than this $400 guitar?), I think a reasonable discussion can be had on price BANDS. Ie,

-if you pay less than $100 for a NEW guitar, it is probably of inferior quality, or made with inferior components (or has less components),
-$100 $350 includes decent guitar that provide many traditionally higher priced features. Electronics may be inferior, and these makers generally rely on third parties to provide quality meaures (grover tuners, Duncan Designed, etc). In my opinion these guitars can be solid, but you need to be careful.
-$350- 650 includes very nice import guitars with higher-priced features and solid quality,
$600 - 1000 includes low-end domestic guitars that can be great values, but you may need to really scrutinze them. Also this band includes very high-end import models with the potential for American wiring and electronics,
$1000+ is the domain of the name brand domestic manufacturers or custom shops.

I know a lot of people here are ga-ga over the import models of guitars - and to some extent I agree that the guitar you can get for the money now-a-days is extraordinary. I don't, however, agree with the pervasive statements about these import models being as good as higher-priced, or name brand, guitars.

For instance... an Agile 3000 might be a great guitar for the money. It maybe a phenomenal guitar for the money. But, it is a phenomenal guitar FOR THE MONEY. It drives me crazy when I see people write "if you gave me an Epiphone Les Paul Custom and a Gibson Les Paul Custom and I had to chose, I'd chose the one that sounded better." No, you wouldn't!!! Maybe 6 people out of 100 would do that. Why would you? Who would do that?? Who would take an Epi over a Gibson at the same point?? That is just a silly statement.

Ok, anyway... rant over... in terms of your price-point... if you are willing to spend $500 - 750 you should be able to get a wonderful guitar with rich history. Since you are willing to spend $500+, I would stay in the name-brand arena.

- Martin, Taylor, Larrivee would all be fine guitars.

If you wanted more "bang for the buck" you could look at Takamine (they do make a fine guitar) or Seagull.

I would shy away from the "great deal" guitars. If you were looking to spend $350 then all brands are in play, but for the money you are looking for, why get an import?

Without going into specifics, in that price range I would definetely look into Seagull, Alvarez, Parkwood (by Cort), Takamine and Washburn.. Maybe even Ibanez. The difference between these brands and the Martins and Taylors is, whereas you're getting their entry models in that price range, you're getting a mid-price point instrument with the brands that I've listed. These brands give you a lot of guitar for your money. I would especially check out the Parkwood. It was a very pleasent surprise when I tried it at the Guitar Center.

Unfortunately for me, my price range is nowhere near that, especially since I already have a cheaper Seagul :)
By the way. You might benefit from asking the same question on acousticguitar and guitarflock forums. (acousticguitar's archive would probably already have the answer, but they loooove to get into it again every time it's asked :P )

oktay

Thanks everyone!

I guess there are just too many intangibles and that's a big part of the problem. Like Kent saidI'm sure at some point I'll be able to hear the difference between a "real" Strat and a decent copy, but that time isn't here yet.

From my perspective it's mind boggling :? . So many brands and each with it's different series. I think NoteBoat made a key point, comparing Ford to Chevy will get completely different answers depending on what make you're comparing. But to continue the analogy, I don't want a Chevette or Festiva or a Datsun B210 (That, unfortunately, was my first car...talk about a chick-magnet :lol: ). I'm not looking at budget models. I'm not looking at Mercedes or Beamers, either, a little too pricey. So what's the Accord or Camry of the guitar world? Again, I know it's waaaaay too subjective.

So thanks Nick, oktay & dali lima, I'm interested in checking out the Seagulls, Alvarez, Parkwoods and Washburns to start. Are the Larrivees really in my price range??? The ones I found during a guick search started at the high $900's.

I like my old Takamine and I saw some good reviews of the EG523 (including twistedlefty in another thread, I think). But I also read the bad reviews to see what people were complaining about and they all pointed to inconsistent quality. That concerns me and is kinda why I started this thread in the first place. Who's consistently good quality? I know, I know, still too subjective... it's just the question that keeps popping up.

I'm also taking NoteBoat's suggestion and bringing my brother-in-law guitar shopping with me. I guarantee, I didn't have to twist his arm when I asked him :lol: .

I'll keep looking and trying lots of 'em out to see how they feel.
Thanks,
Dave

Do you know a good luthier?

If you do, ask them if they provide a shopping service. Tell them how much you want to spend, offer a 5-7% commission to them for helping you select a guitar in that range you'll be happy with, and let the shopping start.