Improvising fast phrases

There's a slightly different mindset to improvising fast lines... it's hard to describe, but it's more about the 'shape' of the melody (at least in my experience) because you have to play so many darn notes in a fast solo. It's not so much 'thinking fast' as thinking differently...

You need metronome type work, but with a backing track - since improvising over the changes are important. Unfortunately, finding a backing track with the same changes in multiple tempos is hard to do! So I'll let you worry about that part :) You'll probably need to get several similar tracks to work with.

Get a good tempo going, and start to play. Play EVERY eighth note for a while (or triplets, sixteenths, whatever you're technically up to for the tempo). After you're comfortable playing lots of notes, start playing LONG phrases - 8 bars or so, then resolve to a held note. Next work shorter phrases, 4 bars each. In 4/4 with eighths, these will have you stringing together 64 or 32 notes before holding one.

Comfortable with it? Then you can free solo - you'll see some improvement. Once you feel like you're building solid lines with more notes, then move to the next track at the next tempo.

Practice with all types of music too... it's easier for me to 'get the groove' of a solo in certain fast styles, like rockabilly, than others, like bebop. Over time, your overall speed range will extend - but it won't happen overnight.

Snake,

welcome and for what it's worth I'm not an advanced player but I think it's more than just knowing scales etc., or memorizing licks. Yes I'm sure they do know hundreds of licks and maybe they can string them together on the fly but I think it's more that they have a total grasp of the fretboard and internalized every sound from each note and when they improvise they are hearing those notes in their head and can instantly translate that to notes on the guitar..

Or I could be all wrong.

well, i learned (and am still learning and discovering) a lot of licks and riffs. the key is just playing them until they're a subconscious thing, so that if you want this sound or that, then your fingers produce it. you can consciously try to play faster and think about which notes come next and all that, but after a while, your fingers will be able to move faster than you can think, or put another way, it won't be a conscious thing. then, you just have to make sure you stay in key and on tempo and sounding appropriate and not just wildly flailing notes, unless that's the desired effect. it's good to play consciously, though, as that's where the habits come from.

I don't know how well I can address this as I am not a speed player by any means.

Lots of solos are memorized, but not always. I read an article by Yngwie, he said he never plays a solo the same way twice. I also read an interview with Stevie Ray Vaughn (not Metal, but plenty fast), he said he could never play a solo the same way twice, that would bore him.

NoteBoat has it. You have to go for a more overall feeling and mood.

I used to own that Speed Mechanics book by Troy Stetina. Yeah, it would take about 2 years to learn all those licks. I practiced a few before loaning the book to a friend and never getting it back. I did increase in speed and control quite a bit. It's a good book.

But I don't really think you want to have 1000 memorized licks. What you should aim for is technique, the ability to play what you hear in your head. I think the only way you can practice this type of thing is actually try to play what you hear in your head. The more you do it, the closer you get. I am really pretty slow, and that's ok, I don't really get a lot out of speed playing. But I can usually get pretty close to playing what I hear in my head. I practice this type of thing constantly. Just make up a little melody and see if I can do it. You kinda have to guess intervals at first, after awhile you get pretty good at getting them right.

While speed is a great thing, I think phrasing is a far greater gift. Listen to David Gilmore. He always plays slow, anybody can play that fast. But man, try to play those great phrases and hit those perfect notes!

So even if you love to play fast, you have to have good phrases, and play with lots of feeling. Gotta hit those good notes. Nothing is more boring than hearing somebody play a million random notes. About as interesting as listening to a typewriter.

So even if you love to play fast, you have to have good phrases, and play with lots of feeling. Gotta hit those good notes. Nothing is more boring than hearing somebody play a million random notes. About as interesting as listening to a typewriter.

That's a terrific analogy Wes. I must remember it (and shamelessly use it as if it was my own :D )

That mention of Troy Stetina brought back some memories. I couldn't really tell you who Troy Stetina has played with or name anything he played, but when I was first starting to play guitar in early 2001 I searched the Web for guitar lesson sites. (That's how I found GuitarNoise.) One of the first places I found was http://stetina.com/ and while I didn't stay around there long because it was more metal-oriented than I was, I exchanged a few messages with Troy Stetina. I thought he was a very nice guy and very helpful to a brand new player. There are some good lessons and learning resources on his site.
8)

Great analogy about David Gilmour.

It's true - in order to play fast phrases, you do have to think differently. I'm not god with guitar by any means, but I generally can improv fairly well because I know what notes I want to play in any given situation. (finding them on the fretboard, though, is the problem. :P)

If we're taking it slow, or at a moderate speed, I can think of a melody and play it, generally; you're able to think note by note, so you can plan out your improv as you're playing. It's quite nice.

When you're playing fast, though (and I haven't really had much experience with this) I'm pretty sure you can't go by a note-by-note basis. Instead, you have to have a good idea of where you are and where you're going; in order to get there, you're going to have to have an intimate knowledge of scales and riffs, and you're going to have to be technically proficient to pull it off with any skill. I don't have the skill to do this (yet) but I wa splaying with a friend when I realized this; I tried to do a couple of fast licks but you can't plan it note by note at blinding speed (unless you already know what you're goin to play beforehand). You'll find yourself falling back on all those riffs you learned, the scales you practiced over and over and over every day...it will come in handy.

I can't think of a good analogy for it, but I hope that made sense. Instead of thinking "G, A, B, G, C" you'd be thinking "G scale run, puase on B, chromatic scale run back down to C, then C major arpeggio for two octaves" or something like that. Exept not in words. :D

yeah, you think like this: ok, i'm gonna blah bleeda blee blah, then this bdbdbd then weeah woooooooo to a blad dad blah dad bweeaw blah dah.

Thanks for your replies, and yes Troy Stetina is a very cool guy, all that I know about metal I´ve learned from his books, they´re just excellent.

Well, I just want to make something clear, I don´t wanna be a mindless shredder playing notes here and there without any sense of phrasing and stuff, as I said earlier I´m pretty satisfied with my improvisation skills, but I want to do the extra mile, I want to go next level and start playing (or doing whatever it takes for that matter) fast lines to add intensity and that dramatic effect to my playing as Steve Morse, Frank Gambale, Pat Metheny or Al Di Meola so tastefully do, so as you can see I don´t want to be the next Yngwie or Petrucci or whoever mega speed rock star, I just want to take my playing to the next level.

I don´t know I think I just want someone to tell me: what you´re doing is right, keep at it, and not waste time practicing the wrong way.

This is funny because all this Troy Stetina comments made me remember an article on an old Guitar One magazine written by him, and finally -for god sake- I found the answer! If you´re interested check it out:

Take a pattern (scalar, arpeggio, lick whatever); make 2 o 3 variations of it; memorize them all until they become single thoughts; combine them; and finally start improvising with them into different sequences as you play.

"The most important advantage by far is that you gain a certain "liveliness" of ideas. You´re practicing to think more quickly and creatively, calling on these patterns instantly and incorporating them into improvised licks." -Troy Stetina-

This is so cool! just what I wanted to know!!. Thanks anyway for your help. :D

Sounds like good advice. :D