Lead Verus Rhymth

Listen to any Van Halen song and you will see the importance of good rhythm playing.
I read in a book of EVH that he suggests players learn good rhythm before working on lead.

how is anybody is sure B B cant play Rythm ??
He, apparently says so himself - "I'm a horrible, horrible rhythm player, I just cannot play very well"

Rahul, your comment was "If you can ONLY play leads and not rhythm..i can bet your lead playing may suck as well."
I did not say that BB King regards rhythm playing as either very easy or a waste of time. I simply made a comment, in reply to your hypothesis that "if he can only play lead, he must suck at it".

Rahul, your comment was "If you can ONLY play leads and not rhythm..i can bet your lead playing may suck as well."

I did not say that BB King regards rhythm playing as either very easy or a waste of time. I simply made a comment, in reply to your hypothesis that "if he can only play lead, he must suck at it".

Hey Hey...I used the word 'May'.I may have been unlucky to find all the 'lead' only players suck at lead playing.My own cousin brother says he is playing lead guitar but its a pain in the butt to listen to him.The whole point it that such self claimed lead guitarists aren't real good lead guitarists either.

The only point i am trying to highlight here is that , don't be a player who keeps on embellishing how well he can play the leads and then doesn't play them well too.IMO , a player may not PLAY rhythm , but i am sure if he is good at leads he must be having a minimum level of proficieny at rhythms.

Take for example John lennon or Paul Mccartney.Both were mostly rhythm players and yet when they separated they have played some of the very fine leads on their works.Then again George harrison has played rhythm guitar on 'While My guitar gently weeps'.

So when BB king says he sucks at rhythm , IMO , he means that COMPARED to his lead , his rhythms may not be good.That is HIS OWN judgement.I am sure King can pretty well play good rhythms too.After all , its too much of an overstatement that you play leads AND you don't even know how to play rhythms.

And what exactly is a lead after all.Notes being struck out of a scale or two ( or more ) with all the techniques.They require timing , pick control , string muting etc.Rhythm requires timing , pick control , string muting and yes , even a knowlegde of scales. (eg major scale)

Some may very well play a limited number of leads , but if they are masters of lead guitar , i cannot even imagine that they can't nail down rhythms !

And the above all is my opinion (based on real experience)...not to reach out against anyone.I would certainly be never a 'lead only' player in my life. :Sigh: 8)

If you can ONLY play leads and not rhythm..i can bet your lead playing may suck as well.
I'm not sure that BB King (nor anyone who's seen him play) would agree with you.

I once watched a B.B. King interview on some guitar website and he seems like a pretty humble dude. Like they asked him why he played lead and he said it was because he sucked at rhythm. They asked him why his vibrato was so awesome and he said it was because he couldn't play slide guitar. Heh...

If you want to hear an excellent example of the lead/rhythm style mentioned listen to Jeff Beck's Version of Greensleeves from his Truth album or listen to just about anything by T-Bone Walker

I see the disinction between rhythm and lead as often very blurry and irrelevant. Nevertheless, viewing them simplistically, both are important and often challenging, and there is always something more to learn to expand one's playing in either aspect.

I've always found the term lead to be a real misnomer. Consider how many tunes could get along fine without a lead or solo, yet would be devastated by not having that rhythm guitar. So who's really leading the band?

Amen, Gnease!

So who's really leading the band?

The bass player. :lol:

Seriously it is best to know both if you want to play
with others. Nothing is more irritating than the guy
who wails away while everybody else is trying
to make music.

Wouldn't Robbie Robertson (the band) be a good example of someone blurring the boundary between rythm and lead too? Seldom the ravishing solos, but constantly something going on. For those of you with the brown album at hand - put on "when you awake"...

But - seems to me we are killing a strawman here - did anybody really argue strongly for the great divide between rythmn and lead?? When OP says he's been practicing lead techniques, I read that as playing scales, solos and riffs as opposed to strumming chords. So - is he missing something? Yes - you should practice chords and work on appergios, chord melodies etc. - for instance.

Lars

Hey Hey...I used the word 'May'.I may have been unlucky to find all the 'lead' only players suck at lead playing.My own cousin brother says he is playing lead guitar but its a pain in the butt to listen to him.The whole point it that such self claimed lead guitarists aren't real good lead guitarists either.

The only point i am trying to highlight here is that , don't be a player who keeps on embellishing how well he can play the leads and then doesn't play them well too.IMO , a player may not PLAY rhythm , but i am sure if he is good at leads he must be having a minimum level of proficieny at rhythms.

I think it must be the case, as you say, tht you've just been unlucky - finding nothing but self proclaimed lead players who actually suck at lead. lol. :?
Cos, i mean, theres no reason for that to be true in general. Although I do beleive also, that improving your rythem does hav an improvement of your lead in the long run.

I'm not knocking anybody elses opinions but personally I don't really make any distinction between the two, I simply just play guitar and hopefully thats nothing more or less than what suits the song to the best of my ability... most of the time that will include rhythm and lead or riff or whatever else feels right.

Being able to do a little of each in my opinion would be better than being great at just one but failing that if I had a choice of only being able to strum basic chords or do blistering solo's then I'd choose the chords. :)

Lee

So who's really leading the band?

The bass player. :lol:

Seriously it is best to know both if you want to play
with others. Nothing is more irritating than the guy
who wails away while everybody else is trying
to make music.

You mean like Zakk Wylde? Seriously I used to think he was good, until about a year ago when I realized "does this guy do anything but solo?". I went to Ozzfest here in washington, and he was playing with his black label society band, and I swear I am not exaggerating, their hour set consisted of 4 songs, which was pretty much a solo, and then he broke off into an impromptu song every once in a while...

I think if you over emphasize 'what' you are as a guitarist, you limit yourself as a guitarist. BB king is probably a better rhyhym guitarist than he thinks, but he is probably just being humble about it :D .

Having said that, if all you like is lead, then yea I would still say learning rhythym is important for learning chord progressions and how they sound polyphonically, as well as understanding the percussive rhythym of a song much better.

Another point could also be made here that 'rhythym' and 'lead' came in a time where playing 'lead' was simply playing the melody or solo in a song, usually involving singular ascending and decending notes, and 'rhythym' involved playing the chords. I think since that time, guitar playing has advanced greatly, and become much more complex to be linearly defined by 2 sides.

The greatest lead guitars use a lot of chords in their solos. Jimi Hendrix used chords in his solos all the time. An excellent sample is All Along the Watchtower. It is mostly single notes, but there is a section with Wah where his solo is all chords.

Stevie Ray Vaughn used chords in his solos all the time.

A modern example of a guitarist who uses much chord-work in his lead style is John Frusciante of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. He is expert at mixing chords with his lead work. A great example is Under the Bridge.

It is not completely fair to say BB King plays only lead. He uses chords in his lead work sparingly. But his style is call-and-response. Usually when he is singing, he is not playing guitar at all. After singing a phrase he will answer it with lead guitar.

If you only play single notes your playing will be very one dimensional. The truly great players mix it up.

If you listen to any of the great power trios you get the point here( The Who, The James Gang, Rush, ) and all the great jazz guitarists can play rhythm very well. In fact i think playing great ryhthm is harder than playing scales( lead guitar)--the dog

I think Keith Richards has been quoted saying something to the effect of "you don't go into a music store and ask to see a "lead" guitar!" But I guess bands would feel kind of silly listing themselves as "first chair, second chair, etc." :wink:

Bottom line is that you can't play lead guitar or rhythm guitar (or classical or folk or dobro or bass or tenor or eighteen string fretless ouds without a sense of rhythm. Rhythm and timing are essential basics of making music. Everything else tends to be secondary.

Peace