Need Advice - Epi Byrdland Hollow-Body

(writing this while half asleep, sorry for typos and grammar issues and repetition)

The Byrdland is a bit of a mixed beast. First of all, it supposedly has a carved solid spruce top (correct?), and rims and back of (laminated) maple. A guitar built with a carved spruce top should have a very nice acoustic tone. Where this comes undone a bit on the Byrdland, is the cuts into the top for the humbucking pups. If this were a guitar truly meant to be an pure acoustic instrument with pups to amplify accurately that acoustic sound, the pups would not be mounted in holes cut into the top, but floated over the uncut top as on some other jazz guitars. But even so, this guitar should still have a relatively good acoustic tone -- just not ultra perfecto. It's a compromise design. So like many jazz boxes, the sound usually is meant to be derived from both acoustic and electric qualities. So again: I would expect a pretty good acoustic tone from this guitar. A bright tone? Not as bright as a carve maple top guitar (as are some jazz guitars). But with laminated maple rims and back, maybe it will be brighter than some other spruce + mahogany guitars. It is definitely possible that your first guitar sounded better acoustically than the second - but this judgment is totally your call. If I felt that the first was better, would that bother me? Somewhat, as I think even a solidbody guitar's timbre starts with its acoustics nature. However, if I would always be playing this amplified, I would make my final decision based on the amplified timbre. Rolling off the tone as issue? Rolling off tone is okay by me. Consider that if you can roll off bright to a nice, dark jazzy sound, that your guitar might actually be more flexible tonally (it can do bright and dark). Can't so easily "EQ in" that brightness and native snappier attack to a duller sounding guitar. Trad jazz guitars are archetypically sharp attack, low sustain and midrange heavy instruments. Is that what you get with the tone rolled off a bit? Then it might be just the right overall sound for you.

The amp may or may not contribute to the tone -- again, it depends what you are looking for. If the guitar were a carved top (it is) with floating pups (they are not), I would expect to use a fairly neutral solid state amp and be able to get nice tones that primarily are acoustic, but made louder. But your guitar is really a bit more toward the electric side of things, so I would have no problems letting the amp contribute to the tone. Bottom line: I recommend you take your guitar to a store with lots of potential jazz amps -- solid state and tube, and try it out to see if any particular combo of guitar/amp gets you the tones you need and want. If possible, get someone with some jazz talent (that you like/admire tonally) to play the guitar for you through these amps so you can do some unencumbered listening. Then let your ears decide if you like what you hear. That will help you decide whether or not to keep the guitar ... for the right musical reasons.

If you decide to keep it just because it is discontinued and may be rare -- well, that's a financial/collectors reasoning, and not a musical decision.

Another important factor in the "jazz tone" is flatwound strings. And, surprisingly, many jazz guitars come out of the shop with roundwounds. Neither you nor Greg mentioned this in your posts (proof positive that Greg must have indeed been half-asleep :wink: ), so I figured it might be worth bringing up into your discussion.

Peace

Absolutely. David. Thought about it and lost it between fuzzy mind and fumbling fingers. Many makers such as Ibanez, Gretsch and Epi now make very reasonably priced, well built guitars that would seem to be ideal for traditional jazz. But they nearly always ship with round-wounds instead of flat-wounds. I can understand that it's all about targeting a broader market and also going lean on the price of installed strings (good flats are pricier), but it means many miss the flat-wound tonal possibility. Flats have very different dynamics and harmonic characteristics. EQ cannot turn brighter roundwounds into the sonic equivalent of flats, which have a darker, "thumpier" bass attack, faster decay, less sustain and lower harmonic levels. It's really a quite unique and beautiful timbre, but one will rarely hear it -- or at least a reasonable approx of it on a mass market guitar, as those strings don't ship with 'em.

Could round- versus flat-wound be the difference between your two Byrdlands guitars? That very well could cause some of the timbral differences you describe.

On a side note, what's the difference, if any, in tension of flatwounds? Could a person switch to flatwounds without doing another setup?

On a side note, what's the difference, if any, in tension of flatwounds? Could a person switch to flatwounds without doing another setup?

Flats come in differently gauged sets just as do round-wounds. As tensions are listed on the its packages, I'd bet D'Addario publishes the spec's for all the various string sets/types on its website.

New set-up is required, as intonation compensation will be different for the differing geometries of the flat-wound strings as compared to rounds -- flexibility is different. One advantage of going up in gauge as is commonly done when switching to flats is the possiblity of lowering the action on a well set-up guitar. This makes the playability easier in terms of action, but of course more difficult for bending due to higher tension. Those rockabilly guys develop strong fingers for bending -- trad jazzers, not so much, as bending is not a popular technique in trad jazz.

I would seriously consider sending it back and pick up a Eastman if you can find a dealer near you.

There is no better hollow-body guitar in that price range that is sold nation-wide.

That said, if you want to have a "brand name," then the Epi isn't a bad guitar. Not great, but not bad.

Since you are playing in that ballpark, however, I'd seriously consider trying an Eastman. I'd also suggest looking around for vintage dealers near you. There are some very nice late-50 to early-70 jazz boxes to be had near that price point if you're willing to shop around a bit.

This is very much a YMMV situation. My local shop carries Eastman's less traditional El Rey archtop models. Nicely made, beautiful design, great craftmanship -- and I really want to like them, but they just didn't quite do it for me, though I'm sure others will fall in love. Which only goes to prove, that we don't all want the same thing. Play them and decide. KP is right, if you are spending $2k, look around, you may be able to do better.

Everyone -

Thank you very much for the responses. I've read every word and I appreciate the advice. I've definitely learned a few things from you guys/gals.

I'm still undecided but I'm leaning toward sending it back.

Thanks again,
Mike/Orlando

This is very much a YMMV situation. My local shop carries Eastman's less traditional El Rey archtop models. Nicely made, beautiful design, great craftmanship -- and I really want to like them, but they just didn't quite do it for me, though I'm sure others will fall in love. Which only goes to prove, that we don't all want the same thing. Play them and decide. KP is right, if you are spending $2k, look around, you may be able to do better.
True -- I should have said "go try one," but I sort of assumed that was implicit in the "dealer near you" part. I would never spend that much on a guitar I didn't hold in my hands first.

That said, the guy I consider my mentor bought a really nice hand made acoustic off of e-bay with a "5 day return guarantee" and he had a great experience doing so (and the guitar is truly wonderful to play).

The one thing I have to say though is don't fall in love with brand names. You will pay for advertising, marketing and the value associated with the name. That doesn't mean that Gibson and Fender and the like don't make great instruments. But it does mean that other people make great instruments too.