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on playing by ear and songwriting

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(@dennett340)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 44
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Dear veteran songwriters,

Would it be fair to say that one's songwriting skills depend heavily on one's database of songs one has accumulated over these years? (Just like the way our writing evolve from the kind of books we've been exposed to in the past)
The ability to play by ear- to me which means having FULL COMPREHENSION of a song, seems like a very important skill- a skill which I am really trying hard to cultivate right now. I wanna get to the point where I hear a riff/lick and be able to immediately play it on the guitar/piano. (obviously so that I can eventually come up with something unique of my own) Therefore, with the intention to increase my “database my guitar teacher's making me figure out the chords to as many songs as possible. And I'm struggling- trying to follow the bass line. AHHH !!
.
How did you guys personally go about this matter? Have you guys personally spent a lot of time working on ear training? do u guys all have really good relative/perfect pitch?

Did u guys go thru the phase of hearing a song over and over again, putting it on loop, and grinding it out until u can get it perfectly?

Do any of you guys also play the piano? I'm learning piano to enhance my songwriting skills and just to have a more solid understanding/foundation of theory and musicianship and the like. The piano seems really good because you can SEE everything that you're playing.

And I'm guessing there are different levels of playing by ear. I'm sure some can hear a song once and then immediately play it from the beginning the end accurately/flawlessly. Some might need to listen to it a few more times and then might be able to miss a note in a complicated chord and thus manage to play close rendition of it. To become a good songwriter, what level should one strive for in this area?
mention the quote before, that a great, hit song is "the truth"(lyrically) and 3 chords.
I'm wrestling with these two ideas because they seem contradictory. Any thoughts? Advices?

Thanks as always, guys


   
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(@alangreen)
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Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 5342
 

Would it be fair to say that one's songwriting skills depend heavily on one's database of songs one has accumulated over these years?

Almost - it depends on having a database of some life experiences and/ or bitterness to trawl through
The ability to play by ear- to me which means having FULL COMPREHENSION of a song, seems like a very important skill- a skill which I am really trying hard to cultivate right now. I wanna get to the point where I hear a riff/lick and be able to immediately play it on the guitar/piano.

A good skill to develop - it ain't easy but gets easier the more you do it
Did u guys go thru the phase of hearing a song over and over again, putting it on loop, and grinding it out until u can get it perfectly?

Yep
The piano seems really good because you can SEE everything that you're playing.

And you can't on a guitar?
And I'm guessing there are different levels of playing by ear. I'm sure some can hear a song once and then immediately play it from the beginning the end accurately/flawlessly. Some might need to listen to it a few more times and then might be able to miss a note in a complicated chord and thus manage to play close rendition of it.

Ultimately it's all down to interpretation, so I wouldn't worry about aiming for 100% perfection. If you do achieve 100% perfection, you're like a copy-typist - can get it all together but no imagination.
...mention the quote before, that a great, hit song is "the truth"(lyrically) and 3 chords.
I'm wrestling with these two ideas because they seem contradictory. Any thoughts? Advices?

You could do a lot worse - look at the UK's Eurovision Song Contest entry this year

And then - once you've written your lyrics and can hear them in your head, they practically never seem to come out sounding the same with a guitar in your hands. Sometimes it's better, sometimes not, but it's almost always different.

Go on, go for it. Write something, and let us hear it.

Best,

A :-)

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


   
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(@maliciant)
Reputable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 259
 

You can 'see' what you are playing probably means you know if a note is higher or lower more readily. It's like reading tab or music notation, when you read notation you actually have a stronger idea of what's going on. On a guitar you can play a scale on one string (this would be like playing on the piano... and if you dropped to the next string on the 15th fret and kept going it's not that different). Or you could play a scale on all six strings and cover about two octaves. This is harder to visualize like the piano and the relative pitch differences aren't nearly so obvious. That might not be what the original poster actually meant but that's what I figured.


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

well, the more you learn and understand musically, the more sense songs wil make. there are some songs that i can play along with the first time i hear them or attempt to play them, and others i have to grind out bit by bit. it depends on the song and how warmed up or tired i am, etc. it gets easier with time and experience..
piano can help shed a new light on your playing. i don't see how it can hurt, anyway.

if you want some easier stuff to learn by ear, learn a bunch of old simple songs. muddy waters, and hank williams sr both have tons of simple 3 chord songs that are very powerful musically and emotionally. if that's not your cup of tea, just start simple and work your way up. there are more simple songs than complicated ones, and the simple ones have a lot in common with each other.


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

I find composing much easier on a piano. Plus you can compose the bass and melody much more independantly at the same time. Or that's my experience atleast.


   
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(@anonymous)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

yeah, but the toilets flow backwards on that side of the ocean, so you can't take his advice too seriously.


   
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(@alangreen)
Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 5342
 

I find composing much easier on a piano. Plus you can compose the bass and melody much more independantly at the same time. Or that's my experience atleast.

I have a collection of lyrics waiting for music, and a set of licks waiting for decent words. One day...

Best,

A :-)

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


   
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