Structured method to improve rhythm?

work with a metronome or drum machine or living rhythm section as much as possible. feel the beat, and let your hand be an extension of that beat. work on playing on the beat, and work on syncopation. find as many variations as possible within a 4 beat or 3 beat framework. take, for instance, the very basic 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &. you can find dozens of different ways to play or rest on those 8 pulses. 1&2&3&4rest, 1&2&3&rest&, 1&2&3rest4&, etc, then with two rests, then with 3,4,5,6, and 7 rests. always feel the beat. tap your foot, bob your head, sway around, dance, whatever you do, but focus on keeping it steady. work on swinging the beat, work on keeping a straight beat. try raggae, jazz rhythms, blues, punk, metal, funk, hip hop, cuban, folk, they all have distinctive rhythms that are home to them.

Get a metronome.

Never practice anything with out it on.

Record your practices.

Listen to them afterwards and really be harsh on your rhythmic skills.

Play slowly, focusing on the rhythm.

Start simple, major scales at 60 bpm.

Then SLOW DOWN till you can play exactly on the beat at 20 bpm. It's much harder to be rhythmically sharp going slow than going fast. If you can do it at this speed, you can do it at any tempo!

Once you're locked in at such a slow tempo, start using the metronome to signal beats 2 and 4. Make sure you stay in perfect time.

Move to playing eighth and sixteenth notes with the metronome ticking off beats 2 and 4.

Now start playing more complex rhythm patterns with the metronome keeping the back beat. pick up a book on drum rhythms to give yourself ideas.

Always play with the metronome. Always record your session. Always listen to it and critique yourself.

You'll come along pretty quickly, I'm sure!

Could you further explain how your ryhthm is not good? I'm confused. Are you a lead guitar player?

Thanks, kingpatzer! That is great advice, I will follow it.

Corbind, right now I'm the only guitarist in my band and up to now we've played with a drummer only rarely. I find it a challenge to keep a tight rhythm all the way through the song without unwanted variations, I have a particular challenge playing the song at the right tempo without any reference--songs we've been playing for months I'll play a too fast, too slow, or miss the beat in places.

Last night we played our regular Thursday open mic, and the host sat in with us on bass. He's an excellent bass player and it's an excellent opportunity to have someone holding down the bottom end--at the open mics our band is just me on electric and my partner singing.

And right from the start, I felt like things were going wrong--I felt like we should have been tighter than ever, but I played sloppily, rhythm was off on the first song, the second song was too slow. Finally got warmed up by the third song of our five-song set, but I'm just determined now to find a way to lock that rhythm down TIGHT and not feel worried about it. Until I do that, I don't feel like I can do much embellishment or improvisation, much less solid lead playing.

Jeff

Certainly playing with less people (or especially solo) makes keeping tempo hard. How long do you say you've been playing?

Certainly playing with less people (or especially solo) makes keeping tempo hard. How long do you say you've been playing?

About 20 years. Most of that time has been noodling in my bedroom, and most of my songwriting and recording has been in my home studio. I've very seldom played with others until just the last few months.

Jeff

Tap your foot and COUNT! Stick to the metronome. It is a tried and true practice method. Clap or snap your fingers to ther radio in your spare time. Get it in your head first.

KP, for my practice sessions, would you recommend focusing on scales at 60 bpm until I've got that down 100%, and then moving down to slower speeds?

Or should I do some at 60bpm and some at slower speeds each session, working my way down to 20bpm?

Jeff

Why do you want to go progress slower? Start slow and build up speed. The problem is that we think that we can do it fast but in reality the mistakes just get slurred over when we play fast. Practice slow and nail it at that tempo, then increase the speed incrementally. I will start as slow as 30 BPM depending on what I'm working on, then build my way up by increments of 5 BPM. This is particularly difficult if you are working on strumming as you want to maintain the evenness of the strum.

Why do you want to go progress slower? Start slow and build up speed. The problem is that we think that we can do it fast but in reality the mistakes just get slurred over when we play fast. Practice slow and nail it at that tempo, then increase the speed incrementally. I will start as slow as 30 BPM depending on what I'm working on, then build my way up by increments of 5 BPM. This is particularly difficult if you are working on strumming as you want to maintain the evenness of the strum.

I'm just trying to get some clearer distinctions on the specific method recommended by kingpatzer earlier up in the thread.

In his post, he wrote:
Play slowly, focusing on the rhythm.

Start simple, major scales at 60 bpm.

Then SLOW DOWN till you can play exactly on the beat at 20 bpm. It's much harder to be rhythmically sharp going slow than going fast. If you can do it at this speed, you can do it at any tempo!

I just want to know if he's recommending starting simple at 60bpm and then slowing down to 20 bpm in the course of a single practice session, or getting the 60bpm down solid before changing the tempo.

In a lot of things there are really specific methods available for reference--if you want to lose weight, there are clear, specific plans about when to exercise, what to work, what to eat, how often to do it.

I'm trying to get a really clear method for this, versus the fairly broad and generic "work with a metronome! slow down!" That's like saying "lift heavy stuff and run a lot" as advice on how to get fit. :) It's certainly valid advice, but it's pretty broad.

Jeff

Jeff, you've been playing 20 years and just recently with others? Bottom line: start playing with others. Often. You'll freak at how fast you'll HAVE to get up-to-speed with everything. Rhythm, structure, etc.

If you do anything, please get out there an play with others more. I hope you look back on this post 2 months from now and say "yea, he was right!" I learned by doing just that. It was hard, frustrating, and quick. Please do it and report back! :shock:

Jeff, you've been playing 20 years and just recently with others? Bottom line: start playing with others. Often. You'll freak at how fast you'll HAVE to get up-to-speed with everything. Rhythm, structure, etc.

If you do anything, please get out there an play with others more. I hope you look back on this post 2 months from now and say "yea, he was right!" I learned by doing just that. It was hard, frustrating, and quick. Please do it and report back! :shock:

I'm playing out 3 nights a week with my band and jamming on weekends. We're playing with drummers and bassists to fill out our group.

The reason I posted this in the first place was because "You'll freak at how fast you'll HAVE to get up-to-speed with everything. Rhythm, structure, etc." Like I described in the first post, that's exactly what happened.

That's why I asked for some specific guidelines. Kingpatzer gave me some great ones, and I just asked for a little clarification.

I'm not claiming anyone is wrong about anything, so there's not much to look back on and say "yea, he was right!" I'm committed to working my ass off to get tighter and more solid because we've got great songs and a lot of opportunities right now to play live and to record, both with other musicians.

You're definitely right about playing with other musicians, and about playing slowly and so on. KP just gave me the specific pointers I was looking for and I'm practicing based on that, so I'm not sure how to respond to what you're saying.

Jeff

I hate to say it but it seems like you're doing everything to avoid the obvious. There is NO REPLACEMENT for playing VERY slowly with a metronome and COUNTING. Go into any number of guitar teaching studios and the most common phrase you will hear is "you're not counting". You can't avoid it. There are no shortcuts.

Granted, playing with a decent rhythm section helps a lot but if you don't have your rhythm down, they're not going to want to play with you for very long. If that's the case, take a hiatus. There are other bands and if they really want you, they'll let you back in once your chops are back up to par.

I hate to say it but it seems like you're doing everything to avoid the obvious. There is NO REPLACEMENT for playing VERY slowly with a metronome and COUNTING. Go into any number of guitar teaching studios and the most common phrase you will hear is "you're not counting". You can't avoid it. There are no shortcuts.

Um... who told you I wanted a "replacement" for "playing VERY slowly with a metronome and COUNTING". I didn't say I wanted to avoid it. I didn't say I wanted a shortcut.

What makes you think that's the case?

I asked for some very specific guidelines on improving my rhythm, and kingpatzer gave them to me. As soon as I read his post, I started practicing scales and songs at 60 bpm, AND practicing with the metronome counting 2 and 4.

I just asked for a little clarification on how he specifically would advise I structure my practice sessions.

Like I said in the first post, I was looking for some more specific advice than just "use a metronome", and I got it from kingpatzer: "Use a metronome. Record your sessions. Start at 60 bpm, major scales. Work down to 20 bpm. Set the metronome at half-speed, counting 2 and 4." And so on.

I got the advice I was looking for and I'm following it. I just wanted a little clarification on it from the person who gave it.

Jeff