6-to-12 project...maybe

any input/advice would be GREATLY appreciated. This reader's opinion would be "form a different plan," but maybe I'm being over-cautious.
Since "extra light" 12-string sets can exert upwards of 300 pulnds of tension, and "light" sets 400+ pounds, that's a lot of strain on a guitar's neck. Trying to shoehorn six more tuners onto the existing headstock doesn't sound like much fun to me, but maybe that's just me. So since it's probably going to require a new neck, perhaps for reasons besides the headstock, can you find one that will fit properly in the neck socket on the body?

You might consider selling the Affinity and putting the proceeds toward an "economy" 12-string. I thought Agile might have something, but here's the only "twelver" they have listed: http://www.rondomusic.net/harm2solid12.html . That one lists for around $350, and only comes in one color. A Dean Boca is around the same price at Musician's Friend, and only comes in black. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=519862
If you're not adverse to eBay deals, that might be another possibility for getting a good used 12-string. I found a good deal last summer on a Jay Turser "Hawk 12." I even got a little Squier amp and a Squier tuner with it, and the price was way less than the MSRP seen here: http://www.jayturser.com/jt_electric4.htm . 8)

Other members may have a whole 'nother take on this.

I know I could save up for a new guitar but what I'm looking for is a project. honestly at this point I doubt that I would get enough cash from selling my squire anyway. I know that the tension in a twelve string is much greater than in a six string, but the only difference I find on most twelve string necks is in the nut and tuner holes. What I want to know is if a twelve string neck has something in it's design that makes it stronger/specificly designed for a twelve string.

I appreciate the advice, it's just finacially impossible for me. although if I had the cash the guitar I'd get is currently on ebay, It's a burns doule six with about a day or so left on it, but at about 330.00$ it's above my price range, which for the next couple of month's or so is 0$ :x

The neck width is likely going to need to be wider on a 12-string. Check out the specs at Warmoth. The 12-string neck is 1-3/4" at the nut. I'd bet your Affinity's nut is 1-5/8" at most. (The Affinity specs are even narrower - 1.61" - but there's quite a bit of variation in Squier's manufacturing.) It doesn't seem like much, but it will really make a difference in playability.

If cost is an issue, you're looking at:
$157 for a basic 12-string neck (Warmoth)
$25 for a basic corian nut (pre-slotted, pre-installed)
$35 for a Gotoh 12-string bridge (plus you may need to get your guitar drilled if it's not already string-through, as 6 strings stop in the bridge and 6 string-through the body)
Add another $6 for string ferrules if you need drilling
$25 to $50 for new tuners

You might want to try a six to nine instead.

That would make for a great and interesting project. I'll have to say save up and buy a 12 string.

Many points by others are well taken.

Joe

The neck width is likely going to need to be wider on a 12-string. Check out the specs at Warmoth. The 12-string neck is 1-3/4" at the nut. I'd bet your Affinity's nut is 1-5/8" at most. (The Affinity specs are even narrower - 1.61" - but there's quite a bit of variation in Squier's manufacturing.) It doesn't seem like much, but it will really make a difference in playability.

I checked a few different twelve strings and the width at the nut on a fender 12 is 1.62" which would be small but would cut off the cost of buying a new neck. just need a nut, the bridge, and tuners, and a way to shoehorn them onto the headstock.

the only good Idea that I have for this is to get a left handed set, and try to squeeze them under the normal tuners. which leaves the problem of how to give the nobs turning room. The only Idea that I have there is to get or grind small nobs, or maybe instead of mounting the tuners on the same level with the others I could use a wood spacer. I think that this will give them more room to turn and also increase the angle of the strings over the nut, since the shaft would be lower in relation to the headstock.

Am I missing any serious problems, here? sometimes it's easy to overlook small stuff and I have the vague feeling that I may be doing just that.
Anyway all the feedback is greatly appreciated. :D thanks :D

how bout those Gibson uke-style tuners? I think they're gibson, maybe they're grover. the ones where the keys stick out the back of the headstock. some Firebird guitars use them. you can stick 6 of them on, and the keys will stick out the back.

Tension is going to be your enemy! Why not make an 8 string by droneing the D and G? You would sound really close to a 12 string.

how bout those Gibson uke-style tuners? I think they're gibson, maybe they're grover. the ones where the keys stick out the back of the headstock. some Firebird guitars use them. you can stick 6 of them on, and the keys will stick out the back.

Yah, they're like orbital gear thingies - like banjo tuners. Orbital? Something-centric?

Anyhow, the idea of grinding the knobs - that might take a bit of work and come out less than what you expect unless you have some sort of machine shop set up.

I actually thought of doing something like this, but it would've been with a Warmoth 12-string neck and parts like slejhamer suggested.

I also like the idea of a nine string because a lot of times it's the top strings that give the '12-string' sound; the doubled bass strings just make it harder to hold them down. Plus you usually wind up backing the bass response off to focus on the chimey top strings and the effect of the octave basses diminishes.

But I think, yah, Warmoth - the heel is supposed to match Fender's pocket exactly.

And the other, pretty nicely made electric 12s are the DaisyRock's. I saw one up close at GC (righty so I didn't play it), and it looked really nicely done.

how bout those Gibson uke-style tuners? I think they're gibson, maybe they're grover. the ones where the keys stick out the back of the headstock. some Firebird guitars use them. you can stick 6 of them on, and the keys will stick out the back.

Yah, they're like orbital gear thingies - like banjo tuners. Orbital? Something-centric?

Anyhow, the idea of grinding the knobs - that might take a bit of work and come out less than what you expect unless you have some sort of machine shop set up.

I actually thought of doing something like this, but it would've been with a Warmoth 12-string neck and parts like slejhamer suggested.

I also like the idea of a nine string because a lot of times it's the top strings that give the '12-string' sound; the doubled bass strings just make it harder to hold them down. Plus you usually wind up backing the bass response off to focus on the chimey top strings and the effect of the octave basses diminishes.

But I think, yah, Warmoth - the heel is supposed to match Fender's pocket exactly.

And the other, pretty nicely made electric 12s are the DaisyRock's. I saw one up close at GC (righty so I didn't play it), and it looked really nicely done.

hi afterblast,

do yourself a favor. read all these replies, 'cause there's some really interesting ideas in there. then go back and read Doug C's reply 'cause it's the best advice so far.

you'll end up putting at least as much if not more money into converting your squier into a 12. buy a 12 if that's what you want. then you'll have 3 guitars. what? you only want 2 guitars? fine, sell the squire and you'll have either have less total cash into the deal for the new 12, or you can spend even more on the 12.

don't get me wrong, if you've got a jones for taking on an unusual project, this could be just the thing. but since you've never done anything like this before, it might be a wild ride.

if you're just trying to get a 12 on the cheap, you'll be happier if you start with one.

unk

don't get me wrong, if you've got a jones for taking on an unusual project, this could be just the thing. but since you've never done anything like this before, it might be a wild ride.

The reason I want to try this is not because I want to get a cheap 12 string. My main motivation is that it is simply an interesting project.

While I only have about 3-4 years of experience with guitars I would like to someday build my own.

I have done a lot of setup, minor restoration, and a few repairs. to my own guitars and several belonging to friends. so far I have had no problems that have been unfixable. Which leads me to this project. I know I've never done anything like it before, but theirs a first time for everything.

I have a lot of experince with wood work, although none specificly with musical instruments. And between my dad, grampa, and uncle my family has a fairly large woodshop which they don't mind me using (something I am very greatfull for :D )
Ideally I would like to make as many of the parts as I can. In theory the only things I shoulld have to buy would be the bridge, tuners, and nut... in theory.

sorry if it sounds a little preachy, i'm just trying to clarify why I'm trying this. :)

As always thanks for the feedback, it has been very helpfull, especially about the planetery tuners.

please keep the good advice coming. :D

ps I already have a third guitar unk, it's a korean made hamer diablo with a foyd rose style bridge. wouldn't mind having a fourth, or fifth... I just can't afford it... yet :)