Not sure where to post this, so I'll put it here for now...
I'd like to have an undersaddle piezo OR some other sort of amplification system installed in my martin dx1. I'm not looking to do this for a while, as I hope to amass funds for it from Christmas. So what I want to know is, what kind of system is recommended, and about how much money am I looking at paying? I don't want a soundhole pickup. I have one, don't like it that much, and the cables hanging down the front of the guitar annoy me.
I'm not looking for something expensive, I want a relatively low costing system that still sounds decent. Thanks for your input!
Piezos are pretty inexpensive until you realize you need to add an equalizer to get acceptable tones. Then it goes from $50 to over $300 and you might still not have what you want.
My experiences..
Low cost: I've installed a Dean Markley under-saddle piezo (maybe $30 US)on a Martin Backpacker:
remove strings;
pull saddle;
drill hole in saddle slot;
route pup wire into hole and lay in piezo strip;
file bottom of saddle and return to bridge slot;
drill hole for endpin jack or similar;
cut pup wire to length and solder on jack;
install jack and dress wiring.
The last two steps were by far the most difficult (not bad). Drilling in the saddle slot seems as if it might be scary, but it's pretty much a harmless operation with a good drill.
I've also permanently installed an in-soundhole Fishman ($150 for active humbucking version). It sounds much better than any piezo I've heard (Backpacker doesn't count, as it's acoustically disadvantaged from the start). I highly recommend this pup. You said you don't like hole-mounted pups, but try a good one and you might change your mind. Just as for a piezo, the wiring may be routed internally.
Other non-soundhole options -- allegedly better, and much more expensive than a piezo -- are a Bluestick ("piezo mic") or an Ibeam pup. The former is under saddle, the latter attached to the bridge plate. However, you may wish to check reviews on these as opinions and successes vary.
Some people think piezos produce a good sound. I do not. Even with EQ, there is still a distinct characteristic sound to the piezo that bugs me. High-end acoustic makers are moving away from using them because of this coloration, which is esp noticeable on transients (the piezo quack). This seems to be a big reason for the development of a new generation of in-soundhole pups, complete with multiple transducers (one or more of magnetic, body piezo, acoustic mic), as well as multipoint non-piezo pups such as the Taylor Expression System.
Go to a shop that can let you hear samples of different acoustic guitar pup technologies and make sure you will like something before you buy and install.
-Greg
-=tension & release=-
I've been researching this all day (fall break from college, nothing to do) and I have some more questions about this.
according to reviews, iBeams suck. so maybe i'll stay away from that.
Preamps! If I had a pickup/transducer or whatever, without a preamp, can I run it into an EQ pedal and have the same effect? And can you recommend some good preamps? I've always thought Takamine made decent ones, at least I like the way Taks sound when I plug them in at the store.
I'm really against putting the soundhole pickup in, because the sight of a big bar in the soundhole bothers me.
So far, the things I'm reading about Piezos are good, but I will try different guitars with different systems.
And what is micro EQ?
One more question
What about systems that have Active EQs built into the endpin? I saw alot of these on ebay and even in old Stew Mac catalogs. Do these work ??
Do you mean this?:
Looks like a buffer amp to me. That is fine, keeps the high end from beign rolled off in the cable, but doesn't perform any EQ.
Fishman and L R Baggs EQs seem to get the best reviews, but I don't own one to comment.
-Greg
-=tension & release=-
Any good or bad word on the Martin Thinline 332 Acoustic Pickup?
From the description and reviews, it seems the Martin 332 is the exact same thing as the Fishman 3/32 inch Thinline pickup. The name is too close to be a coincidence -- probably a Martin re-branding. One difference is the Martin verison costs $99 and change and the Fishman is $60. If one likes the piezo sound, it's probably a fine pickup if correctly installed. Stew-Mac recommends a pream. This is likely to reduce cable(lead) parasitics that roll-off the high end. An equalizer-preamp is probably a better choice for those who are finicky about tone.
I didn't note it above, but it is absolutely essential that the bottom of the saddle slot and the bottom of the saddle be flat for this type of pup. If not, volume and string balance will suffer. Also, upon installation, these pup don't always seem to work well and requires some tapping to properly seat the saddle on the transducers, even after string installation. After that, it's good to go, with or without a preamp. I'll bet a fair number of the bad Harmony Central reviews relate to these installation issues, and not the actual sound.
-Greg
-=tension & release=-
I'm really against putting an EQ in the guitar. So maybe if I had an active piezo with an EQ pedal running into an acoustic amp, will this have a similar effect?
I agree -- I would never cut a guitar rim to mount a guaranteed-to-be-obsolete-some-day EQ system. Fortunately, many of the acoustic EQs are external and may be belt mounted or otherwise. As far as choosing an EQ: If you are going piezo, get an external EQ tailored for a piezo and acoustic guitar. A generic EQ will probably work, but there is a reason L R Baggs, Fishman and other make these things. The bands and preamp are optimized for acoustic guitar voicing and piezo impedances (will usually work with magnetics, as well).
-Greg
-=tension & release=-
