Amp sounds different the further I walk away from it--weird!

After all the guys left Frank and I worked on a song twice. Since nobody else was there, I walked forward another say 5' so the amp was much further behind me.

Do you think that it might have been because the band was not playing all together?

that's why you need a good sound guy

Weird, with me it's the bass that kicks in if I walk a bit further. But yeah, there is apparantly a difference in how they sound, depending on where you are. :lol:

Sound is going to change whenever the room elements change, Dennis. I see a few big changes in your post:

Firsy, yeah, you're in a different place. Sound gets reflected off hard surfaces, and it's going to scatter - so in certain places you'll hear more of one range and less of another. A great example of this is 'whispering galleries', where the room is constructed so all the sound from one spot will be focused on another - you can hear a whisper from fifty feet away if you're in the right spot; move a foot or so, and you hear nothing.

The second big thing is that you have three less bodies in the room. I'm guessing your practice space isn't huge, so getting rid of people (soft surfaces) is going to increase the reflection, and you'll notice it more on highs. As Nick points out, that's why you have sound guys... when you play in a club, the environment will change a bit as people come and go.

One more thing that occurs to me is feedback... if you're in a position with more highs being reflected to your pickups, some of them can re-enter the amplification loop. I've heard that when Santana sound checks a venue, he'll carry a piece of chalk and mark the spots on the floor where he gets the best feedback.

Finally, as Tracker pointed out, you're not all playing together. Your twang in the mix might be perfect, balancing the low end coming from bass and drums. Take them away and you'll sound tinny all by yourself.

I guess I feel a bit better now. Still, it's etched in my mind how shrill my amp sounded with just two guitar players. I'll make a special mention to the guys next practice to give me some feedback after a few songs as to if they think I'm blending in with the mix, too high, or too low of frequency. Hopefully they'll give me some honest answers.

Also, during a few of the songs I'll walk out over toward the middle of the room near the keyboard to see if I sound any different and make adjustments. Here's another thing I read yesterday:

Fletcher-Munson effect:

The psycho acoustical phenomenon in which the subjective frequency response of the human ear changes with the audio level. The result of this effect is that a sound played at a lower relative volume appears to lose both low and high frequency response.

or

A hearing limitation shown by Fletcher Munson Equal Loudness Contours (as music is lowered in volume, it is much more difficult to hear bass frequencies and somewhat harder to hear very high frequencies).

That's one of the reasons I turn my bass and treble way down and keep the mids cranked up. It seems to sound better at high volumes at practice. Yet at lower volumes, I definitely don't hear the bass.

:?

Dennis

There is nothing wrong with your amp. But it will sound different at distance. Bass players especially have to be aware of this effect. Many bass players crank up on stage because they cannot hear themselves, and then are amazed when people in the audience tell them the bass is way too loud. Bass doesn't really focus until about 30-40 feet from the amp.

I have purposely taken my amp to open mics and let others play through it with my guitar just so I could go out in the audience and listen to it. One thing I have discovered about 1 X 12 amps is that they sound incredibly loud and piercing if you are directly in line with the speaker. But if you get off to the side a little, it is not nearly as loud or piercing. Weber Speakers even sells a "Beam Blocker" to counter this effect. I have cut out a circle of duct tape 6" diameter and stuck it on the grille in front of the speaker before. It makes it much more pleasant on stage. Stevie Ray Vaughn was known to put tape over his speakers for this very purpose.

Anyway, here is a link for the Beam Blocker and some useful info.

Weber Beam Blocker

Wes, did I ever tell you I think of you as a brother? Man, that sounds just like what I need. Unfortunately, at this very stage of my life, I'm broke. Ah, only 6 months back I had some serious cash saved up I could have bought a $2k Marshall amp but these days are more like meals of Ramen noodles and junk sandwiches.

Still, at $20, that solution shall be realized. I'll sell some of my power tools to buy one. Sounds like a great solution. I never heard of such a device. I guess some smart dude figured this thing out! Weird how I never read about such a thing.

Okay, now I'll get back to doing some atrocious versions of a few songs….

On a side note, I've read Joe's post and he has an amazing set of stuff for gear to get “tone.” I honestly can't fathom having so much stuff. I'm just trying to get SOMETHING with my very limited ability and equipment. I'll be getting the Beam Blocker for Christmas!!!!! Thanks Wes!

:D

(still, I would appreciate more responses. Your knowledge can't hurt)

Dennis

Thank You! That is a very nice compliment. Maybe we will get to meet someday. I feel the same way about you. In fact, I am thankful for the many great friends I have made on GuitarNoise. Fortunately, I was able to meet a few at the 2004 Jam. I think the 2005 Jam is gonna be out your way. I can't make any promises, but I will try to attend. We can jam!

I also understand your situation. I am kinda going through some changes at this time also, so I can understand the money problem.

That Weber site is very informative. I have just a little money at this time, I think I will finally purchase the 50 Watt Load Dump with Volume Control for my HRD. I would like to crank Volume and Master up to around 8 to get saturation, but keep volume down. That is kind of a joke. My new band is WAY louder than my last band. These guys like to crank it out and the music is pretty heavy. We will be ready to play out in January.

I am also having to learn to play with another guitar player. I have done that before, but was usually in the role of lead player. Now, I am the singer and most of my guitar is rhythm, but the other player (Lane) is really cool and lets me play lead on a few songs. Lane is really good. He started playing guitar one year after me so he has been playing over 30 years. He is fast! More of a metal player than me. It is a nice contrast though. I am more of a bluesy, string bender. But anyway, I find you have to find a tone that doesn't blur with the other player. Sometimes this tone will not sound so great all by itself, but sounds great in the mix. You have to find your own little niche where you can be heard. And it has to compliment the overall sound.

We play pretty heavy stuff now, so I have been going for a Marshall type tone. I have cranked Bass and Treble way up and turned Mid way down. I am still using my Danelectro Fab Tone for heavy distortion. I also crank bass way up on the pedal and have treble at about 50%. It is a good heavy tone. I mostly use the bridge pickup with tone turned down about halfway.

We are going to make a demo CD soon. When we do I will put some of our stuff on here. We have about 10 originals. They are pretty good!

Dennis, for now just stick some duct tape on there. I have done that. It didn't mess up the grille at all. I think the Beam Blocker works better though. Maybe I will order that as well and give you a review.

Keep Rockin Dennis. I have seen you come a long way on guitar in just the last year. Playing in a band will improve your playing better than any other method. Stick it out.

Talk to you later,

Wes

Dennis,

I had a similar experience playing with a guy down here. Whenever we play just the two of us my amp sounds very trebly.

I'm sure for all the reasons already mentioned.

But listen to whatever Wes tells you , he's the man.

Man, I was at work today and thought I'd actually buy myself a present. Yea, one of those cool do-dads Wes told us about to dampen the high/treble notes produced when you are right in front of the amp. Lo and behold, I did not judge my checking account right and I have (oh my) only $35 in disposable income until my next check. Oh man that was disappointing. I did not tally up the $200 plus I'm giving away for Christmas for a few people. And I thought I'd have the new treble-reducer for the gig NYE. Yea right! Reality sets in….

How about using gaffa tape? It will give you an idea of the effect you're going to get from the device before actually shelling out the cash for one. It may be that the gaffa tape is enough.

Is gaffa tape "duck" or "duct" tape? You know, that stuff that's usually silver? I've been testing my boom box at work by having a small post it note over the center of the speakers. It does work when the speakers are shooting right at you and mellows the highs.

Yep, you see a lot of gaffa tape here in Europe - apart from Blighty, no-one knows what a duct is (mind you, they've even less idea of what a gaffa is). "Duck tape" would be even worse - the Germans would feel obliged to call it "Entenband" or something equally nauseating (believe me, I fight this battle on a daily basis).

It's normal that the sound changes as you get further from the amp - mine goes deathly quiet when I get get about 10 metres from it. It used to 5 metres, until I bought a longer cable. Do you think it could be in some way connected to the cable? 8) 8)

It was originally gaff or gaffer's tape and duct tape. But common mispronounciations (and presumably Boston accents) have let to the frequent use of gaffa and duck. Some companies even use these terms in their product names.

Gaffer's tape is usually stronger as it has cloth embedded in it. It also comes in a variety of colors. There is a lot of variation in duct tape, but is it usually silver-gray, plasticized and, these days, better quality duct tape will include some fabric to increase strength.