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mixers and monitors (M&M'S)

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97reb
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Okay, my question for the day - If you have a powered mixer do you use unpowered monitors.  Same goes with unpowered mixer, do you need powered monitors.  What is the difference between active and passive cabs/PA Speakers/ monitors?   Thank you kind folks for your answers and time in advance!!!

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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97reb
(@97reb)
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Hello(ellloo), Is there anybody out there(ere)? as Pink Floyd asked.  Just respond if you can read me.  There is no pain ;).  Are you receiving?

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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forrok_star
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" If you have a powered mixer do you use unpowered monitors"
Yes.

"with unpowered mixer, do you need powered monitors"
Yes and/or no.  You could use powered monitors or use a power amp to run unpowered monitors.

"difference between active and passive cabs"
could mean a couple different things, one being the type of crossover used in the cabinet for seperating the highs,mids and lows.

Also powered speakers are called active and nonpowered speakers are passive.

Hope this helped

joe


   
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97reb
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Yes, thanks, Joe!  That does help some and also that answered a question I did not ask, that being about Power Amps.  Thank You.

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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forrok_star
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Your welcome Anytime.

joe


   
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Anonymous
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if you have powered mixer-you can use power monitors or you can used non-powered monitor which require a power amp to drive it.  powered mixer usually have only 2 POWERED outputs for the main and non for monitors

if you have non-power mixer you can use powered speakers and and powered monitors OR you can use non-power speaker and monitors with amplifiers to drive each separately.


   
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Dan Lasley
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CD: Usually, powered mixers can be configured so one channel is for the mains and the other for the monitors.  Since it is not typical to run stereo in a live setting, this works well for many situations.  You are correct, however, that you can use both channels for the mains if you need the extra power.

-Laz


   
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97reb
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Mains being the speakers generally pointed at the audience and monitors being the ones pointed at you so you can hear what is going on?

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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forrok_star
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Yes your correct. mains (also known as Front of house) for the audience and monitors for the musicians. By combining just the right mixture of both mains and monitors you can create a sound field that sounds transparent, to were everything being played can be heard and yet the audience can still talk to each other without shouting.

Hope I explained it so you understand what I'm thinking. doesn't matter if its a large system or a small one if its not adjusted right it will have a big impact on how you sound.

Joe


   
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Wes Inman
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97reb- Here is a great site to learn about PA's.

http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/

Joe is right about people being able to speak to one another. That is the #1 problem you will see with live bands--- They are too LOUD. Many believe volume equals excitement. If you blast the crowd they will just get up and leave. If you have the discipline to keep your stage volume down, you will have a happy crowd and happy club owner.

If you get a good mix where you can hear each instrument well, and clearly understand the vocals, that will be exciting for the crowd and the band. You play better when you sound good.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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97reb
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Yeah, that site added a lot of info!  I got it book marked for future reference.  What is everybody opinion?

I would assume, small bands using "PA's" - 6 or 8 channel powered mixers with speakers (mains and/or monitors) in smaller venues.  Then, for larger places using an unpowered mixer of 12 - 24 channels (or more)to amps, and then to speakers (mains and monitors).

Don't most larger venues (clubs that hold 500 - 1000) have their own sound systems?  I'm sure most small bars (50 - 200) don't usually.  I know there are some smaller places that are well equipped (those with lots of live music - like every night).

I don't even have a band right now.  I am just trying to find good equipment for the money that is versatile and expandable.  If I start small, I want to be able to add what is needed without having to scrap too much equipment along the way, trade in too much (as it would likely lose value), or have stuff sit around collecting dust.

I'm still researching, debating, and kicking it all around in my head, but some of you folks out there are really helpful with your opinions and I greatly appreciate you and this site!

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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Wes Inman
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97reb

I am in a 3 piece band (guitar, bass, drums). We play Classic & Modern covers and a few originals. I have been doing this for years, and it's as far as I need to go.
I am way past wanting to be a Rock Star. Most of the places I play are small. Once in a while we play larger clubs that hold as many as 500 people. But that's about it. For what I do a small powered mixer works well. A unit like the Yamaha EMX5000 will handle any place like this easily.

But if you think you would like to start a band with real hopes of becoming a professional musician, you'll need a bigger more powerful system. The best thing is that you can build it over time. Start with a nice board with more inputs than you think you'll need. Get an amp that has plenty of power, the more the better. Get some quality front of house speakers and monitors. Couple of SM58 mics and you're ready to go. As your band becomes popular and plays to larger crowds, you can add more amps and Subwoofers. EQ's, Compressors, Effects Units can all be added later. Many large clubs have their own sound systems but you never know.
Some bands prefer to rent sound. No worries about set-up or tear-down, and a professional who knows how to make you sound good.

If you start with a small system, still get as many inputs as possible. I have a 10 channel powered mixer, and even though it's just 3 of us, I'm using about 7-8 channels every gig. You'll always need more than you think.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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97reb
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Thanks, Wes!  That is all along with the thoughts I am having.  I know none of it is easy, but that's cool.  Nothing in life worth having is easy.  All I wanna do is rock!  How many more cheesy quotes can I pass on?  Don't ask!  I'm in a metal frame of mind and you know how cheesy us metal heads get.

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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Wes Inman
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I like metal. I'm not too crazy about the stuff where people growl like a demon, but I like Metallica, Pantera and stuff like that alot.

Saw some good deals today on the Nady amps from Musicians Friend. The XA-900 is 2 X 450W @ 4 ohms only $179. The XA-1000 is 2 X 550W @ 4 ohms, only $249. Nady amps have a good reputation. Their speakers do not.

When looking at speakers, look at several things. Drivers for the horn piezo, phenolic, or titanium. Piezo is cheaper but known to be harsh. Titanium is the smoothest for your highs but expensive.

Look at the SPL ratings. A speaker rated 93dB 1W/1M means this speaker will produce 93 decibels at 1 Watt at 1 Meter distance. Everytime you double the power, you get a 3 decibel increase in volume. So compare 2 speakers;

Kustom 93dB 1W/1M     Peavey Pro-Lite 100dB 1W/1M

Watts

1              93                                      100
2              96                                      103
4              99                                      106
8            102                                      109
16           105                                      112
32           108                                      115
64           111                                      118
128         114                                      121
256        Â 117                                      124
512        Â 120                                      127

Yorkville has a nice PA site, they recommend you have at least 120 decibels at 1 meter to play small clubs. 127 decibels will get you there at a large club.

So you see these 2 speakers at 500 Watts there's a big difference in volume. 12 decibels is considered a doubling in volume. At 7 decibels difference the Peavey would "almost" sound twice as loud. Plus they have titanium drivers vs. piezo for the Kustoms. This is one of the biggest secrets to getting plenty of volume out of your system. Check those SPL ratings.

Behringer has many inexpensive mixer boards with up to 99 effects. Those are a real good deal and have a good reputation.

Do some real study before you buy. You will be surprised what a great system you can buy for cheap.

Check customer reviews on Music 123, American Musical Supply, and Zzounds. See what people who own these products think.

You Metal Heads need POWER POWER POWER!

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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97reb
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Okay, so I got a small 6 channel unpowered  Behringer mixer.  This is my plan for the next step >  
Nady XA-900 Pro Stereo Power Amp at 4ohms there is 340 watts/channel, at 8ohms there is 200 watts/channel.  

If I buy two speakers/cabs,  for my mains - one for left and one for right, then what watt handling capacity do I need to get for the speakers.  I already have some speakers in mind, but don't know if they are what I need.

I am still confused about the clipping that might happen by overpowering or underpowering.  So...

Please, you deities, pass thine knowledge to the everyday folk, so we may try to attain enlightenment.

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


   
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