Not sure which forum this belongs in as it could go into two different ones, plus this one. I'm in the ever familiar quest for tone & setup. I've done some research and could do plenty more, but it's filled with opinions, contradicting statements and marketing hype. Very difficult to weed through. On top of that, I am looking for something that will be useful as I expand my way out of the ESD to more challenging guitar playing. I don't want to buy now and regret later.
My starting point? I currently own a Boss GT-6 and a Fender FM212R.
My Goal(s)? I want something really versitile that does not have that artificial or over-processed sound to it. I'm rather eclectic in my musical tastes. I also do not want a rack full of pedals.
I like the concept of a modeling amp. I also like the concept of a single-unit processor/multi-effects unit. It's just that the implementations that I've seen have not pleased me.
OK, so, some random questions.
#1: Is it true or false that I cannot get pure sound from my GT-6 through my FM212R? Having asked that, must I use a PA type speaker?
#2: Is the GT-6 outdated, or is it just a couple of usability features shy of the "current" technology?
#3: Do the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and FM212R clean settings have the same tone and sound? (seriously. I tried the HRD and thought I could tell a big difference one time, and then another time not. Same guitar off the rack both times. 2nd time though, I was admittedly focused on a work problem.)
#4: Have the modelling amps gotten really good recently, or is there still a lot of room for improvement.
#5: I don't mind waiting. If what I want is available now, great. If it's too expensive, I'll wait a few more months. If the technology simply isn't there yet, I can wait some more. Having said all of that, is there a product out now that will give me the "real" sound that I want, or is it still too "processed" sounding.
#6: OK, so this is more of a current set-up question or problem. I get some bad inconsistencies with my set up. I switch from one patch to another and the volume is all across the board. Also, on any clean setting, I get a sound coming through that's hard to explain. It's like you can hear and feel 10X the power that is actually audible in the tone.
Alrighty. Thanks in advance for your time. I'm just trying to piece a ton of information together.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
ray,
I'm not a tone junky and I haven't spent alot of time messing with my tone so admitedly it's not that good, but I have tried a few things and my personal opinions are.
1.) Get a tube amp, although the solid state amps are good if you really want tone go with a tube amp.
2.) Amp modelers at the end of the day they don't do anything great. They give you a variety of sounds for less money than it would cost for individual peadls bu tin the long run the tone is never quite there.
3.) Get yourself at least one Eq. pedal and maybe one or two more pedals and you'll be happy.
I know this might not be the technical answer you were looking for but it's just my limited experience.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
1) No, disable the cabsims and you're good to go. Make sure you turn them back on when you go through a PA.
2) The GT6 is still good but IMHO the GT8 is tonewise better. On another forum some folks have the GT8 and I'm pretty much stunned by how real it sounds. An example of one them:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=660703&songID=5550604
3) Definitely not. IMHO the best thing about the Fender FM is that it's really loud. For the rest it's kinda sterile, to my taste, and lacks the quality of the Hotrod. Don't forget that the GT6 does suck some tone which is hard to notice on a FM but way easier on the HRD.
4) Same as with the standalone modelers. It's a matter of taste, I use software only, some people hate it some love it.
5) Check out the Tonelab and Valvetronix products from Vox, the POD XT and Flextone from Line6, G2 series from Zoom and the GT8 from Boss. Plenty of clips around on the internet that give an impression. If your computer can handle it and you want to use it for rehearsals only (or everything, if it's a laptop) you can consider Amplitube and GuitarRig.
Now this is my personal preferance, but I like a good overdrive pedal into a tube amp the best. I agree with all of the above. Moddelers and processors do a lot of stuff but not necessarily the best tone.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
Also I'm in my tone quest. I've done all kind of tests with my Zoom G2 and it is not there. It's true I'm looking for a tube tone in a solid-state world but it is not there. Perhaps the POD's (there is a new Pocket POD) or the GT8 (Arjen, it sounds great! Is Gilmour your friend?) have better modelers. I like very much some demo sounds of the Pocket POD but I don't know if I can produce the those sounds.
I've wasted a lot of time thinking and comparing sounds and a conclusion (probably obvious) is the guitar is also part of the tone quest. I play a LP but I don't know if I'm looking for a Strat tone. Just if I think the guitarist I like his/her tone, most of them play Strat.
Anyway, these are part of my current reflexions. I hope they can help you. :D
digitech bad monkey and a Dano fish & chips EQ and your good to go. :wink: i love my monkey thru my bassman or thru my SS crate. it still is a heck of a pedal for under $50. and the F&C EQ imo is the best EQ you can get for under $30
#4491....
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#4491....
I need tone. I spent $$going thru pedals. it took about six years of messing around.
I started with a tube amp and a Tubescreamer.
then I had analogman modify the tubescreamer.
I got my tone. I added delay and I am good to go.
that said, I do have a couple of rigs, depending on what instrument i am playing and where.
for striaght up electric guitar in standard tuning I use Fender Vibrolux, tubescreamer, delay volume pedal.
amp plays clean and dirty depending on the volume. my pedals add my tone.
with my lap steels I use the same as above but add a Vox wah.
my full rig, which I hardly run anymore because I like it stripped down, is vol pedal, tube screamer, MXR compressor, delay, EQ.
once I got close to my tone I found my fingers really were esponsible for half of it.
fingers> attitude>tubescreamer>vol pedal>delay>tube amp .
Thanks for the replies so far.
Based on what I've read in the replies so far, it appears that it's fairly evident that the tube route is right for me. The first time I tried it, I struck a d chord and could not believe what I was hearing. It was really, really nice.
As far as adding versatility, I lose some tone if I go digital, like with a multi-effects board. However, if I go with analog (is this word right?) pedals, I can add some good distortion, etc, without losing the value of the tube amp?
Arjen, the GT-6 does not appear to have a way to bypass the cab sims. I've scoured the manual and forums. I do see lots of references to doing something like that on the GT-8 forum though.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
I've only ever used digital modelling amps - I prefer them for the versatility. Like you, Roy, I don't want a truckload of pedals - in fact, I don't particularly want ANY! Just a lead from my guitar to my amp is fine as far as I'm concerned. There is, of course, a downside - it's awkward changing from one setting to another mid-song.
I've found the Cube 30 suits my needs fine - although the Vox ADT 30V is maybe a touch more versatile, I found the Cube to have a slightly warmer sound - the Vox is just a little too sterile, a little too dry for my taste. I tried both amps out when I bought my new Tele, and found I could get a wide range of tones that suited ME with the Tele and the cube.....I tried riffs like All Right Now (and the solo) and Paranoid and Can't Get Enough and found they were great on the metal or metal stack setting. I tried a couple of CCR tunes - Bad Moon Rising and Lookin' Out My Back Door - sounded pretty good on the clean setting. The real bonus was the acoustic modeller - with a bit of chorus and a tiny touch of reverb, it sounded better than my acoustic guitar!
Of course, I haven't finished experimenting by a long way yet....! Ah, the search for the perfect tone - it never ends, does it!
:D :D :D
Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)
As far as adding versatility, I lose some tone if I go digital, like with a multi-effects board. However, if I go with analog (is this word right?) pedals, I can add some good distortion, etc, without losing the value of the tube amp?
You'll never lose the value of the amp but it really depends on the pedal. For example, an analog crybaby is pretty well known for it's tone-sucking.
I've found the Cube 30 suits my needs fine -
Vic
I've got one of those too. Sitting right beside me at the desk with my trusty MIM Strat hooked up to it. I like it. I have not fully explored the outer regions of it yet, but have on occasion gone to it and found what I was looking for in not too long a time. It's better than that other 30w thing I have. It's one of those Fenders with the DSP effects (which are not too bad for practicing, noodling, etc) The thing I HATE about it is the Dyna-touch that kicks in way too soon. :evil: No wonder it's not made anymore.
My tone quest, though, is for the main amp.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
OK, the latest. I went to the GC actually fully intending to buy an HRD and a couple of pedals. Got there, grabbed an EPI LP off the wall and started playing with it. Sounded good enough. Talked to the salesman quite a bit about where I am and where I think I want to be.
Long story short, a couple of things. First, he said there's a better way to hook up my GT-6 than the way it says in the manual. I've seen this on that Boss user groups thing too. Sooo, I bought a couple more cables. When I got home, I set it up and whaddya know? Thing doesn't sound 1/2 bad.
Next, we chatted pedals. Something simple. Taking the advice of several in this thread and another couple burried deep in other GN forums, I got an overdrive and a compressor. I totally spaced the EQ though. What a dunce. This weekend.....
What I didn't walk out of there with was a tube amp. I figured that I really wanted to try the pedals and the new method of hooking up the GT-6 just to see what kind of difference it made. Also, if I got to a "good enough for now" type of thing, I could delay a $600+ purchase. Gives me a couple of years more experience & learning what I want before laying out that kind of green. I won't hesitate to spend the $$$$ once I'm 100% certain that it has the tone I want. Who knows, it could be another brand or one of those more expensive Fenders.
Bottom line, I got some of the basic sounds I'm looking for with the pedals, and a digital thing that doesn't sound like total crap. Gives me a wide range to play with before really figuring out with certainty exactly what I want in the long run.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
is this "alternate way" of hooking up your Multifx something you can share?
i don't mess with my multi a lot anymore since i started figuring out how to play with my EQ, but i would welcome any insight.
congrats btw on your progress in the tone search.
#4491....
Yeah. TL. It was:
Amp-Pwr out to GT-6 Input
GT6-Out (L-Mono) to Amp pwr in
Guitar to normal plugin on amp.
Seems that the Pwr IN and Pwr Out are the same thing as Efx in and Efx Out ports on other amps.
He was saying that it bypasses something in the amp. Maybe the pre-amp? Regardless, the whole overwhelming power thing is gone.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
