So im looking advice from anyone with experience with PA systems please.
My band is looking to buy its first PA system. We play mostly rock music(kings of leon, foo fighters, mgmt etc..) and we have around €2500 to spend. Unfortunately I have been left in charge of piecing together the equipment but I have no experience at all with PA systems! From looking around online I believe the best choice (and the one that leaves the most room for expansion) is an anologue mixing desk, an EQ, a crossover, a bass amp with two subs and a mid/hi amp and two full range speakers with tweeters and two active floor monitors running from the mixing desk (or is it better to run it from the EQ?) My main concern is with the amps and speakers/subs, do the amps match them or will they be under powered or overpowered or what?!
The different pieces of equipment I have chosen are:
(all the links provided are for thomann,(t h o m a n n incase this forum blocks names like some other forums) a german site that has an excellent range of equipment and is usually very cheap too! just google it and go to PA equipment if you dont want to use the links!:) )
LEM RDX204 Mixer with 12 mic inputs, http://www.thomann.de/gb/lem_rdx204_mixer.htm
BEHRINGER DEQ 1024 DIGITAL EQ http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_deq_1024_digital_eq.htm
DB TECHNOLOGIES ASX 18 crossover http://www.thomann.de/gb/db_technologies_asx_18.htm
for the speakers BEHRINGER EP2500 EUROPOWER amp. 2x 750watts at 4ohms, 2x 500watts at 8ohms, 2x 1200watts at 2ohms, bridged 1x 1500watts at 8ohms, 1x 2400watts at 4ohms (1 kHz @ 0,1% THD, both channels driven). http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ep2500_europower_endstufe.htm
The Speakers themselves: BEHRINGER B1520 EUROLIVE PRO - 2 way full range speaker system (1x 15" & 1x 1" speakers), 400watts (RMS), 800watts (peak), 8ohm.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_b1520_eurolive_pro.htm
For The subs: BEHRINGER EP4000 EUROPOWER
Behringer EP4000 EUROPOWER amplifier - 2x 1400watts at 4ohms, 2x 750 W @ 8 Ohms, 2x 2000watts at 2ohms, bridged 1x 4000 watts at 4ohms, 1x 2800 W @ 8 Ohm, http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ep4000_europower.htm
and The Subs themselves: Behringer B 1800 X Pro Eurolive Performer - 18" sub bass, 450 watts (RMS), 1600watts (peak), 8ohm, 100dB (1watt/1mtr). http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_b_1800_x_pro.htm
Finally the floor monitors: THE BOX MA150 http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_ma150.htm
can anyone with knowledge of pa systems please check these figues and make any recommendations please! also with this systems obviously vocals and the kick drum can be run throught the pa and i have been told that keyboard and acoustic guitar are plugged into DI boxes and then into the mixing desk but what of electric guitars and bass? can they be run into pedals from the pedals to DI boxes and into the PA or is it better just to mic the amps? a friend also told me for the bass to run the pedal into the DI box and from the DI to pa and a bass amp and just mic the guitar amps? as we dont own very big guitar or bass amps is it possible just to run everything through the pa and not bother with seperate amps for each?
I am very thankful for any advice you can give! :)
While I'm not familliar with most of those brands, as far as I can tell that list of gear should work together just fine.
You'll also need mics, DIs, stands and cables.
I'm wondering about the mixer. It calls itself a 20 input, but only 12 of them are mics. Depending on how big the drum kit is, and how many singers you have, you might run out of inputs sooner than you think. (Mic inputs are used for both microphones and DIs)
About the monitors, typically they are fed via a dedicated EQ (not the same one as the mains).
Usually guitar amps are miced. Commonly a Shure SM57.
The bass usually uses a DI, as you said after all effects, last thing before the amp (or if teh bass amp has a built-in DI, that's good too.
Optionally, you can mic a bass amp, using a larger diaphragm mic (the same as the kick drum) - something like a Seinhisser 421 is common (but a bit expensive)
Having small bass and guitar amps on stage is still a good idea, even though they aren't contributing power to the sound the audience hears. The musicians still need them to hear themselves.
The less instruments you have in the monitors the easier it will be for the singers to hear themselves in the monitors.
I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep
Fantastic! :D I was hoping to hear that! :) We got the chance to play with a more professional band last night and I understand what you mean about the mixer, they had around 5 mics on the drums alone! So ill take a look out for a desk with perhaps 20 mic inputs?
Is it neccessary to have an EQ dedicated to the monitors from the start or can we run them straight from the aux output on the desk and get the EQ at a later stage when we get a bit more cash?
Finally in relation to the speakers and the amp.. the speakers are down as 400/800watt rms/peak 8ohm and the amp is 2X 500watt at 8ohm; is that correct or should the amp be only 400 or should we go for 800 watts? similarly the subs are 450/1600 wats rms/peak 8ohm and the amp is 2X 750 watt 8ohm. Thats the area giving me the most trouble because there seems to be so many conflicting articles online and i dont want to spend so much on the wrong gear that either will underpower or blow the speakers!
Thanks so much for the advice its been fantastic even the little things like the diaphragm mic for the kick drum! and a great assurance!:D sorry for these extra questions but i just want be sure about everything before i go spending! Thank you!
Ilovejam
Before going out and spending money, first you should understand PA systems. An excellent site to do that is Scott's PA Tutorial
Go through the links on the left and read. This tutorial will take you from very simple to complex systems in easy-to-understand language. Then ask advice on the Message Board, there are many experienced soundpeople there that can give you advice on gear and operation.
Tell them Wes sent you. :D
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Is it neccessary to have an EQ dedicated to the monitors from the start or can we run them straight from the aux output on the desk and get the EQ at a later stage when we get a bit more cash?
The main function of the EQ for the monitors is to get rid of the feedback. The secondary function is to make it sound pleasant (of course removing feedback makes the monitors much more pleasant)
Finally in relation to the speakers and the amp.. the speakers are down as 400/800watt rms/peak 8ohm and the amp is 2X 500watt at 8ohm; is that correct or should the amp be only 400 or should we go for 800 watts? similarly the subs are 450/1600 wats rms/peak 8ohm and the amp is 2X 750 watt 8ohm. Thats the area giving me the most trouble because there seems to be so many conflicting articles online and i dont want to spend so much on the wrong gear that either will underpower or blow the speakers!
Main speakers 400W 8 ohm , amp 500W 8ohm per channel is close enough. Maybe turn down the amp's input to 80-90% and then there's pretty much nothing that the guy at the board can do to overdrive the speakers.
You could go with another 500W/ch amp for the subs.
Or you could turn the 750W amp down some, until you decide that you want to add more speakers to your setup ('cause no PA ever gets quieter over time :wink: )
I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep
