Ringing in my ears.......

Oh, one more suggestion for Corbind... if the other guitar is knob happy, just stop playing. Eventually he'll notice he's flying solo. Then you tell him his gear is SO much better than yours you just can't compete... maybe he could turn it down until the rest of you can afford stuff like his?

Which ones, specifically, do you get? Always good to know?

Dennis

That is too bad you have a fellow like that in your band. He is just gonna mess your band up.

I have been gigging consistent 75-100 gigs per year for the last 8 years. I can tell you this for a fact. Club owners hate loud bands. People come to clubs to enjoy themselves and socialize. When people have to shout to each other, they just leave and go somewhere else. The club owners are totally aware of this. You will never be invited back.

My band played a club last night for about the 20th time. They love us. And one of the biggest reasons is that we keep it down. The patrons can hear good music AND talk to one another.

Ask your guitar player if he enjoys the sound of a jackhammer or a loud siren. Then ask him why. Maybe he'll get it.

I like that: “knob happy.” It is kinda funny to watch him in a song (mostly the rockin' ones) run over to the amp and make changes. Most of the changes are in volume but sometimes more crunch. He runs back to his position in front of the drums and jams some lead. Jim and I (the bassist) have talked about it and just look at one another shaking our heads “no” since we can't hear anything but drums and lead. Maybe Jim can hear something since he's in front of the PA.

Let me go get that pictorial I just edited in my other post….

###################################
#PA###########DRUMMER###########PA##
###################################
#BASS###BASS##################LEAD##
#AMP###########################AMP#
#MY##ME#############LEAD############
#AMP################GUITAR##########
###################################

Both PA's shoot diagonally in the room toward the wall in front (south) of the drummer. The lead player's amp is on the right shooting directly left (toward the bass guy and me). Bass guy's amp is shooting toward the lead guys' amp. Mine is shooting at my legs toward the lead guy's amp.

I think half the problem is Frank has his keyboard and mic set up in front of the drummer and he claims he can't hear his guitar over the drums. :evil: Any idiot could figure out if he'd move his stuff to the right of the drummer (just as I'm on the way left) he'd be able to hear.

To make it worse, he's not just playing through his Crate (no, not Fender tube, Marshall JCM900, solid state Crate so it's not like we can't compete with his amp, lol), he's playing through the PA! His guitar is going through the left and right PA!. So his lead sounds come across the room at us (bass and me) and the PA in the upper left of the picture above. Unbelievable.

There are two factors that make it not really possible to tell him to shut the heck up. One, it's his house and everything is set up in his finished basement. I can't tell him, “Frank, are you an idiot? Couldn't you just move your keys/mic off to the right so the drums don't make you turn up so insanely loud? Or do you just like being in the center of the room and center of attention?” That ain't happening.
Two, I'm the lowest on the totem pole. They've been a band for 13 years and Joe and knob guy for 25 years. When it comes time, I'm the one to be hitting the door first. You know last in, first out. If I say anything I'll likely get him pissy (he complains a lot) and I don't need him to be grouchy.

So, I suppose the only way to make the statement is with some foam in my ears. Maybe he'll get the idea. Maybe the bass player will go out and get some, too, then that would be a clear sign.

Hmmmm, jackhammer. I'll have to ask him!

Oh yea, stop playing. I've done that. I figure I can drop out because I can't hear myself anyway. Lots of times I flip the lead/middle/rhythm toggle on my SG to see if I can cut through somehow usually to no avail. Yet I've never stopped long enough to take a sip of my beer. The bass player has dropped out to grab his beer and pick up a shaker and put it up to the mic. I'm too new into the band so I haven't earned the ability to do much more than “take it.” :cry:

I know it's just practice, but I would not set up like that. Your PA speakers should be out in front of the mics to prevent feedback. We set up like this

####MY AMP########DRUMS#MIC#########BASS AMP####
#############################################
#############################################
#############################################
########ME########################LEROY#######
#######MIC#########################MIC########
#############################################
################MONITOR#######################
#PA SPEAKER############################PA SPEAKER

With the PA speakers and monitors out in front of the band, we are able to get the vocals quite loud without any feedback problems at all. I put my amp on a stand. I do this so I can hear what the audience is hearing.
When an amp is on the floor, guitar players tend to play too loud. That is because the sound is hitting their legs and not their ears. We angle the guitar amp and bass amp in slightly so our drummer can hear both.

We normally only run vocals and kick drum through PA. This makes for a very simple and uncluttered sound. On occasion, we have mic'd the guitar amp and bass amp. In that situation you want to turn both amps down and just use them as monitors for the players. The PA will carry the sound to the audience. There is another reason to turn the amps down. The sound from the PA speakers and amps do not arrive at the audiences's ears at the same moment. This will blur your sound.

I am very surprised that such an experienced player would play so loud. Perhaps he suffers hearing loss.

My bass player gets the "tweaks". He is always running back making fine adjustments to his sound. It is very distracting. We had to tell him to stop.

If the reason your PA speakers are behind you is so you can hear the vocals, set them out in front of the band but turn them around facing you.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, where I hail from "knob happy" has a toooootally different meaning!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I'm really not sure why Frank has everything set up that was in his basement. I suppose he has the PA's there because there is really no place to put them in front of us (as you show in your diagram). There is a computer and desk in front (south) of me. There's a bookcase where the right PA would go. Besides, Frank's big on having his place look good. He's into having a simple, non-cluttered look. Maybe the PA's look best back there. He had Joe (drummer) take a huge rack out of Franks basement because it looked overwhelming. Now that rack is in the garage.

I know Joe has hearing loss. He drums really loud and he asks “what” more than most people. I'd imagine Frank has lost some hearing because I ask him after practice if that hurt his ears and he say “no, but it must bother you because you're not used to it.” Yea, I don't crank amps at home or when jamming with others. I hope I don't get used to it.

Things should get better when we move practice over to Joe's new house. He has a 10' ceiling in his basement and it's huge. That way, the sound won't be as condensed and I know Joes is not concerned about how things look (to a point).

Just a tip, but you might wanna invest in a sound meter. They're somthing like 20 bucks over at radio shack and can let you know when you're getting too loud. I think it's what, 70 Db?

Hey MH, I need something. We just got done with practice tonight and, when we're done, I caress my ears to see if they're still there. You know, put you fingers in there and do a circle just to get some fresh air in there.

Sadly, I had my earplugs (as always as of three weeks ago) on my amp if I needed them. Tonight, I tilted my amp up toward my ears and I heard MUCH more treble than I've ever heard. It was nice Frank did not get AC/DC loud on his solos tonight. It was pretty shocking and I talked to him afterward about that. I mentioned I always heard his solos really loud and he said, “Well, I just wanted to hear what was happening.” For good or bad, it was wild to hear the rest of the band during those solos.

Shame on me for not putting the plugs in on the last few songs. Definitely the last one or two are blistering (Read: bad for ears).

MH, can you let me know how much one of those things cost? I'll travel over to the Radio Shack and check it out on the weekend. As long as it doesn't sound off like an alarm when you reach 110db, I'll be happy. But it would be a FANTASTIC tool to know when I need to get the plugs in.

All you giggin' people know the game. You play the first set kinda loud. You come back and turn up. The third set is even louder. It's all about acclimation. I'd love a tool (like you're talking about) to let me know I need to protect my ears. Too many Tuesday nights I leave, drive home, and have to turn up the radio higher than I would normally.

Just like to say, whatever I said about bands needing loud practices from time to time is nonsense.

My band used to do that, but ended up just doing loud practices all the time, and destroying our ears.

Just recently, I got fed up with the high volumes and forced them into turning the amps down. The difference is incredible. We could hear the mistakes, and we improved so much in just one practice.

However, my band being what it is, volumes have gone back up again. last band practice I wore some cheap wax earplugs (the type people wear when theyre sleeping on aeroplanes) Because i had nothing else. I wish I'd worn plugs for all of our practices.

Anyways, now I'm looking for some decent earplugs that I don't need to throw away every time. This thread has been really useful, but I would still like to know a Brand name of decent earplugs, that are fairly widely available. Any suggestions?

Thankyou