I've heard you were not supposed to use instrument cable with your P.A. or your guitar amp. My bass player uses instrument cable to connect his bass amp to his speakers and I'm trying to find out if it's effecting his sound any or if it might be messing his head up. Give me y'alls input on this plz.
From my research into amp building, I think your bass player may be throttling his sound. The output side of an amp is rated in watts (4, 8, 16) and expects to have speakers rated the same. One of the things that can affect the overall wattage loaded onto the amp is the cable. Being like any other electrical component, cable creates resistance - thinner and longer, both create more resistance. The first result is less volume from the speakers.
There is a point where the disparity can be large enough to cause damage to the amp.
I don't think he's enough problem to damage the amp, but I would advise him to get the advice of a tech on what cable to use.
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From my research into amp building, I think your bass player may be throttling his sound. The output side of an amp is rated in watts (4, 8, 16) and expects to have speakers rated the same. One of the things that can affect the overall wattage loaded onto the amp is the cable. Being like any other electrical component, cable creates resistance - thinner and longer, both create more resistance. The first result is less volume from the speakers.
There is a point where the disparity can be large enough to cause damage to the amp.
I don't think he's enough problem to damage the amp, but I would advise him to get the advice of a tech on what cable to use.
Do you mean ohms instead of watts?
The cable between an amp and the speaker (cab) has to be able to handle the currents that occurs in low-impredance high-power systems. That means it should be made with thick wire. Instrument cables do not provide that current handling capability, as they usually are designed for as a compromise among mechanical flexibility, shielding and high frequency response => skinny center wire, lotsa shielding. Also, instrument cables are designed for use in higher impedance systems -- so current handling is a non issue (shield to center wire capacitance kills high freqs first). In a speaker cable, the issue of resistance (more generally, impedance) begins as less a damage problem than one of sound dynamics -- esp. at low frequencies (bass!). A speaker cable should be low resistance and low inductance, otherwise the response of the amp-bass combination can ring (sound loose and sloppy) or be over-damped (sound dead). These sonic effects begin to occur well before things get to damage levels.
As shielding is not usually an issue for short amp-speaker runs, your bass player would be better off using even common zip-cord (lamp cord) instead of a shielded instrument cable for amp-to-cab connection. (Note -- I am not recommending zip-cord for PA systems.)
-=tension & release=-
Yup, I meant Ohms - I should practice what I preach (i.e. read what you've written and if you can't understand it, rewrite it NOW!).
HiFi freaks spend a small fortune on speaker cable, so that losses in sound quality are minmal.
I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
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My Articles & Reviews on GN
Gee, I get to put on my EE hat! No theory, I promise.......
Gnease is correct - the larger the wire size the less resistance to current flow and the more power that gets to the speakers. It's an over-simplification, but it sometimes helps to think of electricity like water. All other things being equal, a larger pipe will deliver more usable flow to the point of use than a smaller pipe.
It's uncommon to find instrument cable larger than 16 gauge, while speaker cable is usually at least 14 gauge & is available in 12 or even 10 gauge for really high power applications (remember, the higher the gauge number, the smaller the wire size). Losses due to the increased resistance are the main factor to consider - not to mention that it's significantly more expensive than speaker wire. With the cable lengths we're talking about the slight amount of increased inductive and capacitive reactance would have no measureable effect at audio frequencies.
Low level signals (microphones, instruments, preamp wiring, etc.) are a whole different story, and good quality shielded cable is essential. Lower impedance signals usually use shielded twisted pairs, while higher impedance signals may require a coaxial type cable. Converting your higher impedance unbalanced signals to low impedance balanced signals as close to the source as possible is the single most effective thing you can do to improve the noise immunity of your gear setup.
Thx for the input, guys. So far I don't completely understand all of the technical gibberish but I think you guys are saying he might wanna use speaker cable :-/
He has a nice power amp (b5r ampeg) and it does sound a little loose and sloppy. I'm thinking it might sound this way because of the connections between the amp and the speakers. Of Course his jazz bass has that sound anyway but he's about to buy a MusicMan and I'm thinking the new bass will sound better.
Ah yes, the hidden factor in cable choices - damping factor! Using a small wire to carry a lot of current is inefficient, but it also causes the speaker to become floppy because the amplifier can't control the odd back-currents from the speaker coil. This can sometimes be good in a guitar amp, where under-controlling the speaker can sound OK. But rarely is it desired in a bass amp.
-Laz
MAN! What I wrote got erased. Darn.
Anyway, I don't feel like totally recreating what I said but I'm an Ampeg B5R owner myself and just had a couple of opinions/suggestions:
1) About the cable, yeah, like everyone said, the cable can possibly make a significant difference. I used cheap, instrument cable for a couple of days. Then I purchased amp-to-cab brand name cable made for bass and it made enough of a difference to justify the cost (it was Monster "Bass" wire...probably no difference from that Mogami, LiveWire, but better than discount instrument cable. Plus lifetime warantee!)
2) My biggest point though is that aside from sound that you think is almost to the limit of "something is broken", it is most likely the settings of your B5R that will make the biggest difference. The B5R is very sound adjustable and if not set right, can make for some horrible tone or sounds. I know that sounds obvious, but you B5R owners know what I mean. It took me a couple weeks and being unhappy at shows until I tweaked it enough to where I understood why people love Ampeg so much...and now I do too! Especially with my Avatar B410 cab! ;D
Tips: The clean channel along can get pretty nice. The overdrive channel alone can get pretty insane and even downright unusable when set too high. And who knows why that OverDrive Boost button even exists. But when the clean and overdrive channel is combined, that's where the fun begins (for me at least). The right blend can lead to a very warm, overdriven (if desired) sound. I like my sound warm, slightly to mid-overdriven, good with rock to harder rock.
More tips: The style knobs make a BIG difference. Check out the B5R manual for specifics on what they control, but they can make the difference in whether you really like or hate what you hear. The manual also has suggested settings that are a good starting point. Then you just tweak to taste.
Just my opinions...best of luck! Thanks for reading...
-Transverz
