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GREAT middle eights? Opinions wanted!

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Cat
 Cat
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The heart and soul of music is that theme that stays with you after only the briefest of previews. Commercially, you live or die on a middle eight. I thought it'd be great to have GN members toss into the kitty their own ideas of "what's catchy".

Cat

"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"


   
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dogbite
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middle eight? not sure what you mean.

catchy stuff...most of Keith Richards intros.

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Wes Inman
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I think the Beatles were the masters of "the hook". One great example is I'm a Loser

Right at the beginning when they sing "and I'm not what I appear to be" is a great hook. It has an unusual but very beautiful twist in the melody. When John sings, "there is one love I should never have lost", there is the hook again.

I have to admit I am a sucker for any song with a great hook like this. It can be very subtle. I always loved this old Monkees song A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You written by Neil Diamond. Very catchy. I think the real hook that makes this song spectacular is when Davy Jones simply says, "too" at the end of the chorus. :D

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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David Hodge
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"Middle eight" is another way of saying the "bridge" of a song. Usually it's a section somewhat musically different from the verse and the chorus. Usually very short (eight to sixteen measures), like the section in the Beatles' Two of Us that starts "...you and I have memories..."

Hope that helps.

Peace


   
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Musenfreund
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Agreed about the Beatles.

How about "Eight Days A Week"?

Also, Lennon's "Mind Games" where he introduces a bit of reggae stylings before anyone knew what reggae was.

Well we all shine on--like the moon and the stars and the sun.
-- John Lennon


   
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Cat
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It's no small wonder that so many of us point out The Beatles. Basically, Lennon did the middle eights...McCartney the ride. But then there's "Michelle" and "Yesterday" done completely by McC.

My OWN favourite Beatle middle is "Ticket To Ride" seeing it's a great hook added onto The B's mainstay...AABAB. Ringo was JUST on the dish the other night on Larry King. HE likes (of everything they did) "Paperback Writer". (Go figure!!!)

Animals stuff. "We Gotta Get Outta This Place" has got a great middle.

Remember all of "The Knack"'s stuff? Real hooky.

I've noticed what's gotta be called "middle eights" in classical symphomies, too. OLD ones! (IE: Brahms #4 in Em) Wow!

Cat

"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"


   
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dogbite
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oh, the hook...middle eights. huh. I knew that and didn't have a name for it.
thanks.
Dave Edmonds wrote great hook songs.

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Rgalvez
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Dave Edmonds wrote great hook songs.
Dave Edmunds and of course Nick Lowe were the king of hooks. I've just purchased the reissue of Lowe's Jesus of Cool and it's incredible how he composed so many catchy songs in one single album.
When we talk about hooks my personal choice is 'London Calling' by the Clash.what a combination of melody, rhythm and attitude.All the songs are fresh and that's why it's still considered one of the best albums ever.


   
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slejhamer
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"Middle eight" is another way of saying the "bridge" of a song.

Hooks and bridges aren't the same thing, are they? Why all the talk about hooks? :?

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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David Hodge
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It got confused early on. And you're right, this has become a discussion of two different things. Hooks can appear in any part of a song while the bridge or "middle eight" typically occurs between the second and third verses. Not to worry, though - we'll get there :wink:

Peace


   
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Rgalvez
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It got confused early on. And you're right, this has become a discussion of two different things. Hooks can appear in any part of a song while the bridge or "middle eight" typically occurs between the second and third verses. Not to worry, though - we'll get there :wink:

Peace

Yes . I think this subject was more 'hooked' oriented than a 'bridge' one. But you're ok David ,sooner or later we will get to the bridge, or maybe James Brown will take us there:

Bobby! Should I take 'em to the bridge?
(Go Ahead!)
Take 'em on to the bridge!
(Take em to the bridge!)
Should I take 'em to the bridge?
(Yeah!)
Take 'em to the bridge?
(Go Ahead!)
Hit me now!

cheers
Roberto


   
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Cat
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Hook vs middle eight...

According to the A&R Departments...they equate them. But I'm of a mind that this may be true 99.9% of the time but not always! If you quickly push through the buttons on your car radio...and immediately come up with a "complete identification"...you've found the middle eight.

How important is the middle eight? It's the soul of the idea behind the song...

Lots of folks have compositions that have GREAT musicianship and a GREAT ride...but no soul to it. Like a tofu sandwich! Their inability to "make a point"...to really stand out...most often results in the defensive comment "I don't do commercial music"...while, all the while, mind you...they hope to find that very SAME commercial success they "don't do" with whatever it is that they "do do"!!! One day, these people die and no-one ever knew that they were here!

Cat

"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"


   
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David Hodge
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Hook vs. Middle eight:

Hook
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_(music)

Middle eight
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-two-bar_form

As with many things in music, especially pop music, it's often what you learn and where you learn it from. Most people think of these as two separate things. I know I've not been everywhere nor worked for an A&R department nor do I claim to know for certain, but this thread is the first time in my life that I've heard (or read, if you will) these two terms used interchangably.

Peace


   
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Cat
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Just looked at those wiki-defs...

Looking over a song (as I referred to in Ticket To Ride) there is a co-incidence of the B part with the hook of the song...and this is why I especially like that particular construct. Popular music most of the time has it as one and the same...the B part and the Hook part being the same thing. The wikipedia info refers to music scored quite some time ago...the Tin Pan Alley genre. With an AABA structure...where ELSE is the hook BUT in the B part???

As far as a determination of the meaning "bridge'...I (in my own opinion) look upon the exit part of second A bit as the bridge to the "somewhere" that is catchy...and also is called the B!

Still...I guess it's good to come to some sort of grip with structure...but it wasn't my intention in the original post.

Lemme do it again:

What are the "catchiest bits" to songs that GN members have heard? (How's zat?)

Cat

"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"


   
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Blueline
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I object! :lol:
This thread simply denies those of us who listen to progressive music the ability to contribute. That said, the concept of a middle eight does not exist in a large majority of this music. I think its one of the main reasons why Iove progressive music.

You know, when I first read this thread, it was almost as if my brain exploded. What I mean is..I started thinking of songs with a catchy middle and there were so many that it was almost an information overload.

Anyways, to your question: no doubt its the hook. But hooks come in many different forms. It can be a guitar riff, a vocal part or a combination of the two. One of the best examples I can think of is the song Shine by Collective Soul. Each part of the song is a hook. The guitar riffs, the vocals, the verses, bridges and choruses. The song is just one hook after the next.

Teamwork- A few harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction.


   
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