I hate to ask it...

It's just like drummers saying the same thing about guitarist. It's all in fun.

Joe

It's just good-natured funnin'

Drummers and accordian players seem to be on the receiving end of a lot of jokes from other musicians.

Define 'musician'. Most people who don't play would say it's someone who makes music. Most guitarists and drummers would agree.

Many professional musicians and music adacemics would have a narrower definition - someone with basic skills in musicianship: reading standard notation, versed in basic theory, having some ability in ear training, etc., in addition to having skills on an instrument.

Most drummers - and most guitarists - don't measure up to that definition. A lot of classically trained folks think of pop musicians as clueless.

What I find strange is that this doesn't seem to apply to bass players as much as drummers/guitarists. I know a few pro bass players who can't read a note, but they don't seem to get the instant assumption that they're 'wannabe' musicians from those who play keys, sax, violin, etc.

I've noticed that a lot of the session drummers and hired guns use and read charts. I've known and worked with more drummers than guitarists who read music. The only gig I've ever had where I used charts when playing live was when I was playing drums. Never as a guitarist, unless it was a pickup gig. When I was in school and studied classical percussion, the move to marimba and timpani came pretty quickly, and we all had to study piano. For what it's worth, I've also noted that a lot of producers are drummers.

What I find strange is that this doesn't seem to apply to bass players as much as drummers/guitarists. I know a few pro bass players who can't read a note, but they don't seem to get the instant assumption that they're 'wannabe' musicians from those who play keys, sax, violin, etc.

My experience is different. On a percentage basis, I've met more bass players interested and knowledgable in music theory than guitar players.

I agree with Gnease on that one.

While lots of bass players can't read a note, they tend to understand how what they do contributes to the overall musicallity of a production better than the equally under-educated guitarist or drummer.

The bass player lacking musicianship is still typically interested in doing their job as a member of the band. On a percentage basis, the less a guitarist or drummer has mastered basic musicianship the more they tend to act and play as if the band is there to give them an opportunity to show off.

That generalization is, of course, just that. But I think the experience of most musicians is that a few too many drummers and guitarists both deserve the derision they usually get.

I know when I say it, its all in fun. To me, you look at a drum set and think "Man that has just got to be the easiest thing to play" but anyone who has actually sat down and tried knows its not as easy as you might think.

My son, 8 years old, is just starting to get pretty good and he's played for two years. I call him a drummer now. He can read music, I cant, he's played twice as long as I have been... If I didnt call him a musician I am not sure I could call myself one.

Geoo

Like it has been said, it's all in good fun. I know an amazing drummer, who could have gotten into Julliard but opted not to. He is quite the guitar player, song writer and total musician also.

His kit is to large for most clubs and bars. He is really talented and can play all songs by Tool with the exception of the new unrealesed stuff. He's exceptional, and a greater musician then anyone I've ever met. Unfortunately, he rarely gets to show it. His new band doesn't have insane drumming, but he is still tight regardless.

Check out the "Patterns" books by Gary Chaffee and "The New Breed" book by Gary Chester...limb indepence is something I didn't work with when I was in school eons ago...now it's pretty much the norm. "Extreme Interdepence" is another book that comes to mind, and there are others. The last five or six drum clinics I've been dealt lot with independence. That stuff will keep you working for the rest of your life :)

All musicians should take drum lessons. Seems like as guitarists we concentrate more on melody and not so much on rhythm...getting back and working with a jazz drummer really helped my reading ability on guitar (and piano).

I know this is a guitar forum, but I have a question about why some people put down drummers and claim they aren't really musicians. What makes them any less of a musician that a guitarist or pianist or whatever else?

Well, guitarists outnumber drummers 50:1, so drummers are easy pickin's. Plus drummers seem to get into strange situations more often than anyone else. It's sort of like the kernel of truth in any stereotype - it's not really applicable to everyone, but it still lingers.

And "Spinal Tap" didn't help...

And "Spinal Tap" didn't help...

Maybe that explains why guitarists outnumber drummers 50:1

I've got to say that our drummer is really key in figuring out how to arrange numbers. He's got a great ear for it -- almost as good as the guy who leads the band. And let's not forget, that the drummer is the only member of the band who gets to sit on a throne! That tells you something.

My drummer colleague and I always joke at each others expense. Unless there is a bassist present - then we both rip into him. No harm meant. I would love to be able to play drums.