Myself, if I want to hear something played just like the record, I'll stay at home & play the record. When I go out to hear live music, I want something different -- would rather hear covers changed around completely from the records. Would prefer to hear mediocre originals played with sloppy conviction to perfectly played duplications of a record. Just my own humble preference.
Trio format offers all three players enormous room to stretch out, & too few trios take advantage of that. With the right rhythm section a guitarist can fly, regardless of the style. But in a trio you can't hide a weak link, no matter what you play. That bass player of yours, Threegtrz, is going to be a liability sooner or later, even if you try to do note-for-note Stray Cats covers.
Chris, musicians need to meet the basic needs of the band they are in. If your band is a just-like-the-record cover band & your guys can't or won't cut it... either they need to change or the band does, in which case I suggest you try "Jailbreak" as a slow waltz. 8)
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Crow, yikes don't want to start a cover war or anything but what you describe is the exact opposite of what I want to hear. Not that a really good original would bother me but I've rarely heard any.
When I say note for note I'm not that anal to mean every instrument has to be exactly note for note but pretty dam close but listening to the CD isn't the same as hearing it live. That's the draw of live music, and it's more than just the music it's the whole vibe etc. that goes on in a live environment. You can feel the energy not the same as listening to it on a CD.
But I have heard some very good originals, but heard alot more bad ones also. I shouldn't say they were bad that's really not the right term it's just that they didn't do anything for me.
Now you have me thinking what I really want to hear when I go out.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Chris - "All Along the Watchtower" by Jimi. 'Nuff said.
There is a band in Danbury CT that has been playing covers for 20 years, and they play every song exactly like the original. They are popular and successful. And they go through lead guitarists every two years, because those guitarists can't stand the constraints.
Remember, every cover song starts out as a original. And everyone who writes a song hopes that someone else will cover it.
No war necessary. Just my humble preference, as noted.
Perhaps I'd rather hear original bands because I would rather play in a band that takes chances musically. Or maybe it's the other way around. I don't mind not knowing what's gonna happen next. I like it.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Yeah, when my son adds stuff it's cause we have a bass and guitar. We are a 3 piece when we have a drummer. He has to play extra to make up for the rhythm guitar's part. He does it extremely well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrmM_-OyTiQ Check out the bass line in this song. (Ignore our little mistake ... we were celebrating) Is it note for note?
Not to stir the pot, but what if VanHalen did You really got me just like the Kinks record? That said there is a street musician in St Augustine Florida that plays the same jazz/blues riffs on his keyoard and sings every song known to man to those same riffs. That aint good either. :wink: I would say the differences I like to hear are the artists style coming through and bar bands are not high end acts like Hendrix or VanHalen. Play the right chords in the right time and nail the riffs though and I'm happy.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
Dan I was going to mention that as the only cover song I thought was better than the original. I'm sure there are alot more but I couldn't think of any.
Yea everyone has their own opinion of what they want to do/hear and that's cool there's plenty of room for everyone.
If you are in an original or semi-original type band I would imagine the drama would be much higher because usually it ends up being one guy writing the music and then he calls all the shots. I quess as long as everyone is cool playing one guys music it can work but I'd bet it would be difficult, especially whne you have to tell your buddy his song sucks.
If you are playing good covers you know the mass appeal is already there it's just up to the band to do it justice.
There's a reason most bars don't go for original music bands it's because on the whole they don't bring in customers. Unless they are very good and established few people are going to take a chance on their night out to go listen to a band they might enjoy.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
I would imagine the drama would be much higher because usually it ends up being one guy writing the music and then he calls all the shots.
I've played bass on other people's original songs from written-out parts, note-for-note, and I've played bass on originals in which I was given a free hand to do whatever I wanted. Sometimes both, with the same artist. Again, you bring to the gig what the gig requires. If there is a main "band guy" calling the shots (and writing the checks, or at least buying the drinks), you do what you need to get the check (or the drinks). If it's a friendship thing, you do what you need to support your friend. There is a line here between professionalism and a neurotic need for "self-expression," in my humble opinion. There are some bands for whom I would just never even bother to try out unless I was starving, because the creative constraints would be impossible to bear. I'm that neurotic.
There's a reason most bars don't go for original music bands it's because on the whole they don't bring in customers.
Ninety percent of everything is cr@p. That applies to cover bands as well as to original music bands. If you excel, you will (eventually) bring in customers. You will find your audience. If you don't bring in customers, you need to play better in whatever genre you have chosen as a band.
As to people who don't want to "take chances" on their nights out... what can I say? They're missing out.
Dan I was going to mention that as the only cover song I thought was better than the original. I'm sure there are alot more but I couldn't think of any.
Let's see...
- "Woodstock" by CSN, covering Joni.
- "Mr. Tambourine Man" by the Byrds, covering Dylan.
- "Turn! Turn! Turn!" by Byrds, covering Pete Seeger.
- "Soul of a Man" by Bruce Cockburn, covering Blind Willie Johnson.
- "Spoonful" by Cream, covering Willie Dixon/Howlin' Wolf. (Wolf apparently considered their version "dogsh!t.")
- "Both Sides, Now" by Judy Collins, covering Joni (arguably a better version at least).
- "That's All Right" by Elvis, covering Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup.
- "Twist and Shout" by the Beatles, covering the Isley Brothers (who covered the Top Notes).
- "Dedicated to the One I Love" by the Mamas & the Papas, covering the Shirelles (who covered the Five Royales).
- "Statesboro Blues" by the Allmans, covering Blind Willie McTell.
- "Viva Las Vegas" by the Dead Kennedys, covering Elvis.
- "Love is All Around" by Husker Du, covering the Mary Tyler Moore theme.
All by artists who pumped new energy & interest & creativity into other people's songs. None are note-for-note. And I am suddenly interested in covering all of those songs in my own way -- "Both Sides, Now" with Husker Du in mind, "Viva Las Vegas" with a "Tumblin' Dice" feel....
Sorry. Gotta go play now. 8)
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Crow I agree you need to be on your game in whatever genre you are into but regardless the venues (al least in my area) for original music are few and far between, matter of fact those few only want orignals and the othe 90% don't want originals.
Playing someone's bass lines or making up your own wasn't exactly my point what I meant is your stuck playing a certain style of music if your OK with it it's fine if not then no good. You may have some freedom in what you play but you wouldn't have a lot of freedom of the music direction overall. That's where I see the potential problems.
As for the covers you listed I'm not really a fan of any of them.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Playing someone's bass lines or making up your own wasn't exactly my point
No, it was the OP's point, basically. His bass player can't/won't play the changes of the songs they play. There's independence, and then there's ineptitude. I'm not sure which Threegtrz's bass player is dealing with.
what I meant is your stuck playing a certain style of music if your OK with it it's fine if not then no good.
I don't even jam with blues bands, much less audition for them, because their "required" basslines are so dull. If you don't like the genre, don't try out for the band. If you get the job, play what you were hired to play. This is not rocket science. Threegtrz's bass player needs some schooling, one way or the other.
As for the covers you listed I'm not really a fan of any of them.
Sheesh. Well, at least they all brought in the customers. :P
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Yes getting back to the OP's point you are correct. We got off on a bit of a tangent.
I can't really say I disagree with anything you said it all makes sense it's more a matter of preference and that's a good thing.
Might not even disagree on your list of covers I probably never heard the originals so maybe they were cr@p to begin with and those are huge improvements, but none of them you listed jump out at me as anything I'd want to listen to.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
but none of them you listed jump out at me as anything I'd want to listen to.
About a dozen years ago I went on a business junket to China with the Queensland gov't. After a buch of seminars we took a late night stroll across The Bund (Shanghai) looking for a night spot. We asked a group of people where "good music was". They SWORE we'd love the rockers playing at this one place...they were supposed to be great with Hendrix and Zep covers. They insisted we'd be totally blown away.
Four old Chinese guys...the youngest one was at least up into his 70's. TRADITIONAL Chinese instruments. 'Whole Lotta Love' was their lead off cover...then 'Foxy Lady'...all on these weird-lookin' Chinese instruments.
PERFECT! Absolutely PERFECT...amazing...wish you all could have heard them. A real mind-blower...
:shock:
Cat
"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"
Just as an aside, I really enjoy playing bass for songwriters, especially those who can make the transition from a one-person act to a multi-instrumental group. Coming up with a bassline that hasn't been written yet is a lot of fun.
Hello again from the OP!
Our gig Saturday night went really well. :D We played for a houseful of people who actually wanted to see a band, and not just hold down a bar stool while trying to shack up.
As a band, we did well, we all had a lot of fun, I think I lost ten pounds in sweat. We also got booked someplace next month from someone who came to see us.
We aren't a bad band, we're pretty good. But we could ratchet up the level to "awesome" with a more solid bottom.
The day we were to play, I had worked myself into such a funk, that I would've been happy if something cancelled the gig. My wife asked why I was so down and I laid out the same points I made in my post. I asked her to listen that night (along with catching up with the other band-wives) and see if she could hear what I was talking about. On the way home, she said she definitely heard it and said it could be a problem.
I don't believe this is a matter of "can't" or "won't". He simply "isn't", and I do attribute this to a form of musical ignorance. I hate to use that term, but it's all that comes to mind right now. I think he's coasting along on these walks because he just doesn't know any better. As I mentioned earlier, the drummer and I are grizzled vets while this is his very first band.
Referencing another poster on here, I'm going to do the best I can personally and enjoy the ride as much as possible. Big changes could be on the horizon anyway; I am job hunting for a position which may take me out of the area, and the bassist will be experiencing major shifts in his personal life in a few months - one that may impose such demands on his time that he would be forced to quit. His time is already stretched to nearly the breaking point.
It's funny. Once we started playing, all was right in the world.
