Solo or not to solo.......

At least OneWingedAngel didn't listen to Winger. haha!

I take that to mean you did? Otherwise you wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about now would you? So which is it? Closet Winger fan or a hit and run musical ignoramus?

I know that's sarcasm but I don't entirely blame you. Yes it is a simple song. And from your posts, you sound like you've been playing for a while. So you probably don't have much trouble fretting power chords cleanly or keeping time. But, I have a heck of a time fretting them cleanly while keeping time all the while trying to operate my pedal. If I were at your skill level, I'd probably say the same thing as you, so I don't blame you.

Since I am new, I could be totally wrong on this because I've seen 'lead' used in many different ways but, doesn't Smells Like Teen Spirit have a solo? As well as Breed, Heart Shaped Box, In Bloom, Come As You Are, Blew, Floyd The Barber Negative Creep, Siftings Big Cheese, Mexican Seafood, Serve the Servants, Scentless Apprentice, Pennyroyal Tea. Don't mean to be rude but I am kind of confused on what a lead is.

I know that's sarcasm but I don't entirely blame you. Yes it is a simple song. And from your posts, you sound like you've been playing for a while. So you probably don't have much trouble fretting power chords cleanly or keeping time. But, I have a heck of a time fretting them cleanly while keeping time all the while trying to operate my pedal. If I were at your skill level, I'd probably say the same thing as you, so I don't blame you.

Since I am new, I could be totally wrong on this because I've seen 'lead' used in many different ways but, doesn't Smells Like Teen Spirit have a solo? As well as Breed, Heart Shaped Box, In Bloom. Don't mean to be rude but I am kind of confused on what a lead is.

It was sarcasm and probably not justified in the sense that as a guitarist I remember all too well how hard a power chord was to barre in the beginning. But if nothing else it illustrates my point, that to go beyond that and be able to play lightning fast runs, or simply learning new ways to accent notes and control the sound, while not always being everyones musical taste, would be the point where most players give in, which is a shame because having a degree of proficiency certainly opens up possibilities within a song. I merely echoed sentiments of earlier threads whereby the loss of the guitar solo is mourned.

As for what solo's Kurt played on which songs, I'm sure you would find some, but they were not to my mind part of some well thought out structural process- that I assume would have been defeating the whole purpose of the grunge movement which was to let loose, a complete abandonment of technique rather than a conscious effort to place less focus on it as the majority would have people believe.

As for what solo's Kurt played on which songs, I'm sure you would find some, but they were not to my mind part of some well thought out structural process- that to my mind would have been defeating the whole purpose of the grunge movement which was to let loose, a complete abandonment of technique rather than a conscious effort to place less focus on it as the majority would have people believe.

Kurt did things differently. During the time grunge music was coming to the forefront, most bands were rebelling against classic rock and trying to get away from it. Kurt on the other hand was a fan of classic rock. The Beatles and especially John Lennon. In fact, during the recording of Nevermind, anytime the producer wanted to do something to the mix and Kurt was opposed to it, all he had to say was "John Lennon did it." and Kurt would change his mind.

Anyway, I've hijacked this thread long enough. One thing I have noticed about music, is the solo is sometimes replaced by an interlude, often before the final chorus. It often has vocals, but isn't a verse or chorus. Usually, there isn't any shredding either. Not sure if this happens more and more but I've seen the same band on the same album solo on one song, but go for this 'interlude' on the next song.

Acutally Nirvana's songwriting (which is Kurt) is very interesting, and different from other grunge music. There is a reason why many regard him as a good songwriter, and it doesnt necessarily have to do with lyrics, but structure. An example is "On a Plain", that song is very interestingly structured. Very unlike most songs in the past. If I recall, the phrase "Love myself better than you" is repeated throughout the verses, it's very hard to break apart verses, and this was something really never seen before. Also the end of the song, with the backing vocals just kept in, and fading everything else just gives an eerie feeling to the song. I don't know if this is what you guys were talking about or not, but I just wanted to share my 2 cents worth.

streetlethal,

i couldn't agree with you more, it should have been a murder/ suicide, i'm really tired of seeing and hearing about that ugly, junkie sl#t.

Well this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn. While I agree with StreetLegal in terms of his/her overall approach to the guitar, I don't think we can entirely dismiss grunge music as "rock n' roll" played badly. I would assert - and many would agree - that Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden we all very fine musicians. (and those are just the "famous" mainstream bands of this timeframe). And let's not forget the killer musicianship of Citizen Kane.

Cobain just struck a chord with people and became the post-boy for grunge. In fact, I would imagine that he'd still be here if he wasn't the face of "new rock". In any event, I think he was a fine lyric-writer, and an "ok" song writer.

And yes, he played some solos, although I wouldn't think that many people would want to learn to play them outside the context of the song.

Hmmm... why are we talking about 10 year-old music anyway, what about the current music? I think the thread began with a discussion not about grunge, but about "new" metal and the lack of solos in new metal. THAT is what I don't get - you are playing killer riffs and no solos???

Street, you seem to be missing the point of a discussion board. The Idea is to DISCUSS not to try and forcibly ram your viewpoint down other peoples throats, nor is the point to denigrate or insult others when they don't agree. You do have the right to have your own opinion and you have the right to discuss your opinion. You do not have the right to be rude to other board members when they don't agree. Please realize that in order for a discussion to have any merit or to progress all parties must remain civil

One of my favorite all-time bands is Iron Maiden, but they have stagnated so much. It is a little depressing when I buy a new album from them (yes, had one 2004) and it sounds like a re-hash of 1988.

The one major thing I admire Iron Maiden for and many of their fans do as well is that they have stuck to their guns. Steve Harris does not care about the trends, metal is metal and Iron Maiden plays it as they did from day one.

Eddie Lives!!

I'm all for being true to yourself and your music, but I also believe that musician's need to grow and evolve, and I don't think Maiden has done that. There are 3 or 4 songs on their latest album that I really like, and the rest are simply lesser versions of previous songs.

Maiden - and sorry, I know this isn't a thread about Maiden - evolved tremendously from their 1st two albums (punk based) to their 3rd, and then evolved again over the next 4. Then they started making the same music over and over again, with a few notable exceptions.

What really kills me is how popular Metallica became in the late 1990s as they dove-tailed into the post-grung music movement, when Iron Maiden is clearly 3 - 4 times the band.

i'm not a great guitarist, but when i write songs i do tend to write a solo in there, usually something melody base that adds texture to a song, i think a keyboard solo would be better or a bass solo i'll write that instead. I think people who soloing as an ego trip don't fully comprehend what a solo can be, the guitar is a fantastic instrument and most classical pieces are written as quasi solo's, they really can add texture to a song and are fantastic way's to slip into a key change or a break.

But a solo where one shouldn't be IS an ego trip so it's a double edged swordm grace, tact and humility are my personal solo rules.

And if the discussion doesn't remain civil, I will delete the thread. Thanks for the reminder, Teleplayer.
Tim

To answer the original question my personal opinion is a song is a song, some sound right with solos and some dont. I don't agree that all songs without solos = bad guitarist although I'm sure many of them might be. What matters is the song content and if somebody can write a great song with limited musicianship then they are a great songwriter and thats that. Not being a great musician should not deny you the right to call yourself a musician, there is nothing wrong with being a great songwriter but bad instrumentalist and many of these people may well have no interest in becoming good musicians because it's the song that gives them their buzz and not their ability to play their chosen instrument.

The same can easily be said in reverse, you can be technically fantastic on a guitar but musically bore the hell out of me (I've met many) and be a crap songwriter or you might be great at both (I've also met many). Even though I'd love to play guitar like some of my idols the fact is most of the songs I really like are actually not that difficult technically.

Songwriting is a musical art so if somebody can write a great song within their limitations as a instrumentalist then IMO they are still great musicians albeit at only one end of the scale. Nothing wrong with that.

Lee

if i copy and paste "the illiad" from a website onto MSWord, does that make me an epic poet?
what if i only copy and paste "ode on a grecian urn"? does this make me a lesser poet?

Maiden - and sorry, I know this isn't a thread about Maiden - evolved tremendously from their 1st two albums (punk based) to their 3rd, and then evolved again over the next 4. Then they started making the same music over and over again, with a few notable exceptions.

What really kills me is how popular Metallica became in the late 1990s as they dove-tailed into the post-grung music movement, when Iron Maiden is clearly 3 - 4 times the band.
I do have to agree on the point of musical growth.......I guess that is why I stopped buying Maiden albums after Fear(with the exeption of Brave New World)

" Solos are for ego maniacs, my music I write comes from the heart and no with no frills" =

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY LEAD GUITAR

Period. You've got to know how to read between the lines. :D

I guess I am not that judgemental on other people's abilities and their style. What this person said really just opened my eyes to the fact that most of these so-called "metal" bands are so anti the solo and then label a person who can actually play lead guitar an egomaniac. All I know is all of this will come back in full circle :D :D :D

Long live the solo!! 8)