Tube Amps

Tube vs digital! :shock:

The very question you just asked has been the cause for many, many heated discussions all over the world and a quick and easy answer doesn't really exist. It might prevent a lot of long-winded stories if you could tell us what exactly you are looking for in the amp. What budget do you have, how loud should it be, what other gear do you have and what sound are you shooting for?

In any case, cool to hear you're getting a new amp. More stuff is always better. 8)
I understand that their true goodness is only achieved when their master or volume or something is set to 10. If this is the case, could I get the same good sound if the amp was 10 but my guitar was say 2-4?

A tube amps sounds different when the tubes are pushed, but whether thats better or not is something you'll have to decide for yourself. And using the volume knob on your guitar as well there are a bunch of different sounds availlable, in any case having the amp up and the guitar down sounds different from having the guitar up and the amp down.

Assume budget isn't a problem for now.

Like I said, under 30watts ie. not too loud.

As for sound, I play soft alternative rhythm as well as rock rhythm and lead. So all sounds really.

I heard that distortion pedals switching on and off and stuff sound better on a tube amp, so I guess that would be a plus.

Well, again, what is too loud? For example, the 5W epiphone valve junior amps are quite popular at the time, but if you crank them you will still get problems with the neighbours. Do you need to be heared over drums or is it just for home practicing and nothing else? To make things more complicated you have devices called 'attenuators' which bring down the volume of a tube amp but hardly change the sound, so if budget ain't a problem you might just look for any amp you like and hook an attenuator up to it.

This is what I assume for now":
1) Home usage only
2) Budget isn't a problem *at all*
3) No effects required
4) Sounds ranging from clean to rock

If this is the case you could get any tube amp that picks your fancy, hook up a proper overdrive pedal to it, and get an attenuator ($100+) to control the volume. If you already have some speakers you only need a head instead of a full combo, which could be cheaper. The final cost could be anything above $200. Remember that, unlike with digitals, you don't have much to chose with a limited budget. The Ibanez Valbee and Epi Valve Junior seem to be one of the few <$200 tube amps, whereas you have tons of options if you can spare $350-$400. This, together with an attenuator and booster pedal would come down to a total of avout $550.

Now if there is some limit to the budget, or if you want included effects, or need even a wider scope of sounds then you might want to look at modelling. Many different companies make all kinds of tube amps in all price ranges. Personal favourites are the Vox Valvetronix series, Roland Cube series and Line6 FlextoneIII series.

Well if I crank my current Fender practice amp (15W) to 10 and my guitar to 7-8-9, then that's too loud and will annoy the neighbours.

So surely a 5watt tube amp to 10 and guitar to 7-8-9 is only one third the volume of the 15 watt?

*And I know all about attenuators after reading that thread in the other forum.

:D

Unfortunately, no. A 5W amp is half as loud as a 50W amp, assuming the speakers and such are similar. The difference between 5W and 15W is pretty darn small.

Hmm.

Maybe 5 watts will be enough, then.

It says it's 88 pounds, which is $200 roughly. I feel I could afford more, for quality reasons, not for louder wattage reasons. Is it worth looking for something say $300? Or is this Epi Valve Junior really the biz?

I get good room volumes with a 1W (yes, one watt) amp through a good 12" speaker - at 16ohms, it's pushing the limits of the amp and 8 watts would get me more volume (that I really don't need).
Crank a 5W tube amp to 10 through a 4x12 cab and you'll have neighbours knocking on your door with 00 buckshot!

Clazon: tube amps like this are the start of your sound, not the end. You'll really want to invest in an attenuator, you'll want an EQ, overdrive pedal, proper cab (as the junior has a less then optimal speaker), reverb unit maybe, you name it. That will probably be closer to $500 then $200. Ofcourse, you can replace the Epi with another amp. Slap on another $600 and you've got yourself a Vox AC30, or Marshall JTM45. Plenty of re-issue JCM800s floating around as well. You can spend as much as you want no problems.

Don't forget that higher wattage amps need more expensive attenuators. And as Greybeard says, even one single watt is more then enough for home practicing. :)

Greybeard: I assume you mean '8 ohm' and not '8 watt'?

I was think of more 5W by a 1x12 cab. (The Epi is 1x8)

:D

Cranking allowed?

And how does 5 equate to half of a 50 watt?

What do you mean by a proper cab Arjen?

You mean plug the amp into a better speaker or what?

Greybeard: I assume you mean '8 ohm' and not '8 watt'?
Oooops, yes, that's what I meant. :oops:

Clazon: The epi also comes as a head (which happens to be the one I have), you'll need a cab with that one, preferably a good one. If you already think of going 1x12" getting the combo would be useless. Cranking is allowed by me, no idea what you're neighbours are going to think of it. ;)

Hmmm.

I'd love to get a more authentic Hendrix sound as well as keeping a more 90's-06's sound as well as possibly being suitable for an electro-acoustic.

Seems I'll have to try some of these amps out in store.

And how does 5 equate to half of a 50 watt?

Well it may be more like 12.5w being perceived as half as loud as 50w, assuming that +6db equates to a doubling of perceived volume (which I read on a web site, so it must be true, LOL.) Some say that it takes +10db to double perceived volume. I believe it depends on the frequency of the signal, but we can probably be safe in saying it takes at least 6db, up to 10db.

Basically, a doubling of wattage equates to an increase of 3db (decibels) of sound pressure, if everything else is constant (speaker, etc.) Likewise, cutting wattage in half equates to a 3db decrease in sound pressure.

So if a 50w amp generates 100db, then a 25w generates 97db, a 12.5w generates 94db. If -6db is the threshold at which perceived volume is reduced by half, then a 12.5w amp is half as loud as a 50w amp. If -10db is the threshold, then indeed it's a 5w amp which will be perceived as being half as loud as a 50watter. (Think about that: it takes 10 times as much power to generate only 2 times the volume!)

Then there's the issue of why tube amps are louder than solid state amps of the same wattage ... which is way beyond me to explain.