I hope it is not out of order to float a suggestion here.
Before SCW started up we newbies (to guitar)happily coexisted with the Musically Insane etc because we were mainly dealing with words. Once SCW started, the men immediately became separated from the boys as they expertly played with Dimsum#9 chords and dissonant resonances etc.
I had a browse through SCW and was excited watching the process of songs being put together but was frustrated because it was way over my head. :? I was going to post my basic attempt at putting my lyrics to music but was thoroughly intimidated by the professionalism I saw! Not surprisingly the posters were – if one can posts use as an indication of guitar playing/music composing experience –musically insane or at least GN addicts. The level of musical discourse was so high all I could do was to listen to the mp3s read the posts and say ‘gosh – I hope I will be like this one day'.
My suggestion is this. SSG focuses mainly on lyrics, but once we have honed them with expert guidance (which is always much appreciated) would it be possible to have some help in putting them to simple music? This would make one feel one was really composing.
Perhaps us newbies could come up with a chord sequence, then some of the more experienced composers could suggest (simple) ways in which we could make the arrangement more exciting. Then we could go away and try the suggestions and thus be guided into moving from something standard to something more personalised.
I guess the GN songwriting forum might do this but it is not as structured as SSG where us less experienced ones appreciate the close attention of the experts. SSG has a classroom feel with personal tutors whereas on GN songwriters often people get no feedback. I know there are songwriting lessons but I had a sort of live practical exercise in mind.
I suppose what I am suggesting is the equivalent of a beginners sub-forum on SCW. :idea:
This is not a whinge – I hope it is just a useful idea.
Does anyone agree?
If so, any better solutions of how to help us gnewbies get walked through the first steps in the process of putting our words to music?
Ola
“Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is go where they can find you.” - Winnie the Pooh
I had a browse through SCW and was excited watching the process of songs being put together but was frustrated because it was way over my head.
Believe me, you are not the only one! Reading other people's efforts - especially Kingpatzer's and Noteboat's - brought home the reality to me that, yes, I can play a few chords, but when it comes to understanding song structure, etc, I'm as much of a novice as ever!
SSG remains as it ever was - a place to PRACTISE the craft of songwriting, with a weekly topic or theme to focus on. SCW's pretty much the same, but with the accent on writing music. And my SCW effort this week? Pretty much your standard 12-bar blues, except I've used my little finger on the top couple of strings to give a vague hint at a melody. It's all about experimentation - Noteboat and Kingpatzer have more tools (musically speaking) at their disposal than the rest of us, so you could look at it this way - you've got less theory etc to get stuck on! There are no points awarded, it's not a contest, and I'm sure that for the relative newbies, those with some musical nous will be only too willing to help.
Like dhodge wrote - if everyone learns one new chord this week and uses it next week, he'll consider it a job well done. Well - I haven't learned any new chords as such, but I have learned how to use a couple of old ones a little better!
Perhaps us newbies could come up with a chord sequence, then some of the more experienced composers could suggest (simple) ways in which we could make the arrangement more exciting. Then we could go away and try the suggestions and thus be guided into moving from something standard to something more personalised.
That's pretty much what HAS happened this week in the SCW - at least I think that's what happened.....
Keep plugging away, Montezuma - and everyone else!
:D :D :D
Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)
The assignments for the SCW are, hopefully, going to cover a wide variety of areas and you will (again, hopefully) find things not so polarized. This first assignment was also a means for me to discover what the potential for participation might be (and what the participation itself might entail), so I truly apologize if it put anyone off.
That being said, and to also echo what Vic mentioned (something that I'm sure everyone is aware of), which is that there are all sorts of ways of learning from these assignments. More importantly, these assignments are about learning. It's not supposed to be a competition, just as playing isn't about who's faster, who knows more chords, etc., it's about picking up tips and techniques and ideas. We're all here to work together.
Because there are people of many different levels of abilities participating, there is always going to be a bit of a gap in the types of submissions for the assignments. There actually is in the SSG as well, but it's much easier to spot it in the SCW because of the first assignment. Hang in there and don't be afraid to ask questions.
It may seem totally unreal to you, all of us started somewhere and have more than our shares of feeling exactly as you did reading the SCW stuff. Don't sweat it.
Be seeing you on the boards.
Peace
As a real 'newbie' I have to agree with Vic and David. I'm learning a load just by having a go and seeing other people's efforts. It is daunting but a great way to learn. As well as working through David's easy/intermediate song tutorials I've found taking part in this gives a new angle on song construction and is improving my playing. AND it has got my kids making up blues songs, mostly about how awful my singing is.
Thanks for the comments.
I hope it didn't sound as if I felt I wasn't learning anything - I agree that this is a great way to learn & SCW is a great idea.
I guess I felt a bit overawed, especially after I tried to put my words to music and immediately got stuck. :?
Anyway, ta for the encouragement - ill keep browsing SCW and ill keep working – hopefully I'll post something soon.
Cheers
Ola
“Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is go where they can find you.” - Winnie the Pooh
The thing is, if you look at what Noteboat and I did, it's not really all that nuts -- but I can understand why someone who doesn't have a theory back ground could think it is.
Ask us what's going on and I know I'll be glad to explain it. And I've never seen Noteboat pass up a question on theory either!
On the one hand, it's seems nuts because we're using fancy chord names -- but on the other hand, you might be too, but just don't realize you're doing it (ever drop that pinky on an open D chord? Congrats, you're playing with 11ths!)
I've been totally humbled by some people's very first serious melodic line compositions. It's not about knowledge levels, it's about working with music.
Noteboat and I aren't superhuman, or musically insane (well, he isn't, I've played free jazz, so I guess I'm at least suspect :) ), we've just read a few more books or sat in a few more classes. But go back a few years, and you would have seen us strumming open chords and wondering which chords you can play over this or that scale too.
A great composition isn't always the fanciest one. My favorite guitar composition of all time is Django's Nuages -- it's a trivial composition once you see it, but the genius required to imagine it is beyond me. I can deconstruct it a dozen different ways, but I can't write it once. Or take a look at the musical score from Miles Davis' Kind of Blue -- the greatest selling jazz album of all time, and it's amazingly simple -- and that's the genius of it really.
Composition isn't about how fancy you can make something, it's about creating good sounding music, having fun, stretching your own abilities, and getting feedback from folks you like and respect about what you're doing right and how you can do better next time.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
My two cents: the less we understand about things, the more we see a divide between the big boys and the neophytes. The more we understand, the more we realize how little we really know.
There's a piece in Mel Bay's book 2 that I've been using to teach for at least 25 years. About 3 weeks ago, a 14 year old girl played it at her lesson... using a fingering I'd never considered. A couple weeks before that, I was teaching chord inversions to a 13 year old, and she showed me a minor triad inversion she'd found that I'd never ever played.
I've heard beginning musicians play a single mournful note with articulation and timing that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Complicated doesn't equal good. I've spent hours analyzing Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 or Ravel's Bolero and I'm amazed at how simple the music really is. What really awes me is "easy" music that's beautiful - that's much, much more difficult to do than "hard" music.
I figure music's like water. You've got your cup, I've got mine. They may look the same, but you've got different water than I do... and I'm constantly jealous of the stuff I don't have, just like you are. Maybe you look at your cup and see a half a pint, and you look at mine and see a quart full... but mine can look pretty muddy to me, and yours may seem like it's crystal clear - you got your musical idea across.
We're all intimidated, just in different ways.
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The other thing is to remember to really listen to a wide range of music.
I'd never have though to compose something in 14/8, for example, if I hadn't heard someone else do it first. And I wouldn't have thought to do it for this assignment if I hadn't heard someone play "Satisfaction" in 7/4 the night before.
Expanding your listening expands your ability to write.
And reading compositions for ideas is something that really helps as well. Don't just look at the chord progression, but how the harmony and melody interact.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
Good point about listening - I find myself much more of an active listener since I started up with the guitar. Trying to deconstruct, playing a track over and again listening to the different parts.
Noteboat - I'm sure I use some fingerings you've never seen before in your life :lol:
Cheers
Ola
“Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is go where they can find you.” - Winnie the Pooh
