Easy leads and riffs for beginners.

'Twas Uno Pulgar.

Odd that you should mention this, but, after misanthrope asked about the tab for Apache, I've been thinking about starting a thread for instrumentals, either as jams or as an assignment.

Graham,

I humbly, humbly apologise for all previous sins, instance(s) of being a pain in the neck, etc. :cry:

If you would be the Godfather of such a thread or project I'd be there like a shot. :D

I expect the Shadows sound a bit old hat to the younger guys (and to be honest they sound pretty dated to me too...) but I'm sure that some of their stuff would be ideal for 'learning the craft' as it were. I've even got a CD called "The Shadows 30 All Time Great Hits" - which actually has 31 tracks on it... :? :D

Jams are great once you've got a little bit down the track, and maybe there could be an "end of the week/month" jam for those who felt they'd reached the standard needed. But I think that GN would currently get a large volume of invisible, or semi-visible traffic from people who would like to join in but who don't quite have the confidence or skills to do so. I think they would get a lot of benefit from participating in a project that went from zero to song, and talked through, in a cooperative way, all the aspects that make up a piece of music - focusing on a single song.

If it's all too hard using known material, then maybe we have enough talent among the bunch of us to write some suitable material.

Cheers,

Chris

To give an idea of what I mean about the Easy Songs:

I just went there and the top thread was "Lady in Black" posted by Greybeard. Looks easy enough - two simple chords.

Lady in Black

But I don't know the song. There's some word and chords, but no sound clip and no real idea of how to strum it. Bull has a stab at it, but I don't get the feeling he succeeded. His attempt at writing it out doesn't seem to line up well enough to follow.

Matteo then chips in with some ideas. But by the end I'm not really any wiser than I was at the beginning. Greybeard has put a lot of work in, but there's not enough there for me to be able to make use of it. :( There are 11 posts but they span over three years from late 2003 to 2007. If that had been 'workshopped' a bunch of us could have been playing it in a few hours. It seems at worst a waste, and and at best an under-use of Greybeard's efforts.

There are over 20 pages of songs there with songs and posts of varying complexity and usefulness. How many people have the time and interest to wade through all that and try it out to see if it's going to suit them? Why don't we bring some of it to life by pulling it out and working on it cooperatively?. Maybe it could even be done as "Song of the Week" at the Easy Songs forum?

The next song that was on the list was also another resurrected old post - Nils' version of Stand By Me. This one has a short sound clip with Nils playing a simple clean version of what he posted. I was able to play along almost immediately, and great fun it was too. :D Far easier than trying to match an original band recording, and keep restarting a CD at the beginning of the right track, etc. I just left it looping and jumped on each time the bus came past. What could be better? 8)

Stand By Me

The clip made a big difference because it felt like Nils was there showing me how to play it - in a nice simple easy to follow way. But, again, we could have taken it much further if we had been able to do some more work on it as a group over a week, or whatever. We could have embellished it a bit, helped those who had trouble changing chords or getting the strum right, etc, and worked up to playing the song all the way through. Maybe worked on the singing too. We could have talked about amp settings, and....well, all those dozens of small things that make the difference between a set of chords coming out in several completely different ways, instead of what was intended... :?

OK. Enough from me. If there's little interest from the Forum Admins, then so be it. But it does seem that an opportunity is going begging... :)

Cheers,

Chris

I really hope this workshop idea gets going. I think it is a great idea, and perfect for people like me who live in the boonies and have no one to work on stuff with. The easy songs database just doesn't give enough information for me and I always have so many questions about how it should be done, what to do where, ect. Only I'd like to see both an accoustic and an electric choice, and I'd participate in both. I'd probably need more than a week to work on a new song, though. We don't seem to have a "thumbs up" icon here, but if we did, I'd be using it for this idea.

Are you working primarily out of the Easy Song Database? Could the workshop be an extension of that forum?

OK, what I suggest is that we set a task, similar to the SSG, but with much slacker times - maybe 2 weeks to complete.
To avoid any trouble with storage space, everyone should store their result on soundclick, myspace, or wherever and put a link in the thread.
If there's no objection, I'll start a thread.

I did this one quite a while ago now https://www.guitarnoise.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22873 It has mp3's of the intro verse, chorus, and solo. It was very difficult to explain the complexities of the rhythms and strumming using only text on it. Is this the sort of format you are talking about?

Are you working primarily out of the Easy Song Database? Could the workshop be an extension of that forum?

Sounds like a good idea in theory, but I can see snags - an extension would still have to be separate from the ESD, otherwise the ESD would start getting clogged up again, in a similar way to when requests weren't confined to one thread....

But the ESD is a mine of information, most of it pretty good....
OK, what I suggest is that we set a task, similar to the SSG, but with much slacker times - maybe 2 weeks to complete.
To avoid any trouble with storage space, everyone should store their result on soundclick, myspace, or wherever and put a link in the thread.
If there's no objection, I'll start a thread.

Thread or forum? At one time, there was a companion section to the SSG, with the accent on creating music rather than just posting lyrics.....

Sounds a great idea to me though....what are you thinking of by way of an assignment? An easily recognisable song, suitable for beginners, but with enough leeway to allow the more advanced guitarists to stretch their muscles?

:D :D :D

Vic

Sounds a great idea to me though....what are you thinking of by way of an assignment? An easily recognisable song, suitable for beginners, but with enough leeway to allow the more advanced guitarists to stretch their muscles?

:D :D :D

Vic
that would depend on who is getting involved at the start of every week /month make a list of songs and pick from that you could do a poll to see which song to use or have a teacher/ advanced guitarist assigned for the week maybe and they could pick and do there own song so yes you can stretch them teaching us :lol:

I notice Greybeard's started an instrumental thread in "Online Jams".....

OK, good idea.....but I think what we were getting at was a FORUM where we can break a song down virtually to molecules, and build it up again.....

For example - Take the John Lennon version of "Stand By Me"....4 chords, A, F#m, D and E.....a distinctive, though not difficult strumming pattern which id repeated throughout the song, so great for beginners.....if said beginners found the F#m a bit tricky, they could do the song in G, Em C and D - with or without a capo. There's a slide solo which isn't too difficult in standard tuning, but could also be done in an open tuning. There's also another solo which shouldn't be too difficult to work out. On top of all that, there's a simple bass line....again not too difficult to work out.

So just that one song could be played with for a while - you're learning a bit of palm muting, an easy-ish introduction to slide, an easy-ish introduction to soloing, a little bit of transposition, and a simple bass line.

Forum could be called "Song workshop" - threads could be open ended....I think it'd be a great learning tool, because as well as learning the song, people would be encouraged to participate in its growth from just 4 chords to a full song....

Like Chris C said, it's an opportunity that should be snatched with both hands....

And I'd suggest one new song per month.....

Plenty of time to work on one song, before moving on to the next - or even leave the first one active as long as anyone wants to join in....

:D :D :D

Vic

BTW, I've only just noticed that photobucket now hosts video clips - anyone with a decent digital camera could show clips of certain strumming patterns.....I know I could....

:D :D :D

Vic

BTW, I've only just noticed that photobucket now hosts video clips - anyone with a decent digital camera could show clips of certain strumming patterns.....I know I could....

:D :D :D

Vic

That sounds excellent Vic. :)

I think that a workshop forum should have pinned at the top a list of 'tools' that you need in order to get the most out of the experience. Tell people what's needed in a "Workshop Starter Pack". Obviously, a guitar - with or without an amp. But also things like:

When it comes to doing the actual workshopping, there are a wide range of elements that need to be covered, not just the chords or melody line. When I buy sheet music (which I'm quite prepared to do) I get the following infomation:

All this information is needed by a learner who attempts a song. If you're experienced you can often fill in the gaps by experimenting and 'deconstructing' from a recording. If you're a beginner you not only can't do that you probably don't even know that half that stuff is an issue. So they get frustrated and disillusioned. :cry:

Most TAB sites and Song Bases are pretty half-baked. The information just isn't there. There's usually no complete music, it may not actually be correct, half the info is missing, and there's often no sound clips and not even a decent index to find anything. All those issues are easily addressed if you spend a bit of time as a group, doing a proper workshop on the song.

The only real issue to solve is how legal is it?

Several of the TAB sites I had bookmarked now have no information - just a bunch of ads, some links to places to buy the sheets or sound clips, and a message that they're working on the licencing issue.

I suspect that many music sites are actually too low key and inefficient for publishers to bother with. If they did the job properly - and spelled out everything that you need to know to play a particular song, it might attract a bit more unwelcome attention? Anybody know where all that stands now?

Cheers,

Chris

The only real issue to solve is how legal is it?

Hmm you've got a point there....but we can use the standard disclaimer, "These Files are for Educational purpose"...and as long as we can prove that - which shouldn't be too difficult - we should be OK....and of course, any tabs will be an INTERPRETATION.....

I remember reading somewhere that the French were rather annoyed with the Australians for marketing Australian Champagne - the French side was "you can't call it Champagne, Champagne is French"....the Aussie attitude seemed to be along the lines of "So sue us, declare war, or shut up...."

:D :D :D

Vic

I remember reading somewhere that the French were rather annoyed with the Australians for marketing Australian Champagne - the French side was "you can't call it Champagne, Champagne is French"....the Aussie attitude seemed to be along the lines of "So sue us, declare war, or shut up...."

:D :D :D

Vic

Actually we complied. It was a fair point.

We now don't label our sparkling wines as Champagne.

The French pointed out that many of the wine names referred to specific regions of France and that you shouldn't call a product by a regional name if it has no connection with that region.

So we don't call wine "Bordeaux" or "Champagne" or whatever. Instead we now use a name that denotes a varietal style - i.e. what type of grapes were used. So we drink "Shiraz" or "Cabernet Sauvignon" or whatever. Often still French names, but referring to the name of the grape, not the name of a French wine growing region.

We also brew Guinness - but under official licence. All other similar drinks are ****** stout.

I think that some sort of deal has to eventually be sorted out between net sites and their members and the music copyright holders. Perhaps similar to the fee that's charged when you hire a hall for a public performance. The money goes into a central fund and is shared out among the creative artists. I don't know how effective it is - but it's better than nothing.

If I had to pay some sort of 'cover charge' to join part of a site that offered real and complete workshopping of music, as it should be, then I'd certainly be prepared to pay. Provided of course that it was a reasonable sum. Some might prefer it to be supported by advertising instead, but the basic concept of people contributing a modest fee of some kind to use other people's creative work seems reasonable enough to me.

Cheers,

Chris

To give an idea of what I mean about the Easy Songs:

I just went there and the top thread was "Lady in Black" posted by Greybeard. Looks easy enough - two simple chords.

Lady in Black

But I don't know the song. There's some word and chords, but no sound clip and no real idea of how to strum it. Bull has a stab at it, but I don't get the feeling he succeeded. His attempt at writing it out doesn't seem to line up well enough to follow.

Matteo then chips in with some ideas. But by the end I'm not really any wiser than I was at the beginning. Greybeard has put a lot of work in, but there's not enough there for me to be able to make use of it. :( There are 11 posts but they span over three years from late 2003 to 2007. If that had been 'workshopped' a bunch of us could have been playing it in a few hours. It seems at worst a waste, and and at best an under-use of Greybeard's efforts.

There are over 20 pages of songs there with songs and posts of varying complexity and usefulness. How many people have the time and interest to wade through all that and try it out to see if it's going to suit them? Why don't we bring some of it to life by pulling it out and working on it cooperatively?. Maybe it could even be done as "Song of the Week" at the Easy Songs forum?

The next song that was on the list was also another resurrected old post - Nils' version of Stand By Me. This one has a short sound clip with Nils playing a simple clean version of what he posted. I was able to play along almost immediately, and great fun it was too. :D Far easier than trying to match an original band recording, and keep restarting a CD at the beginning of the right track, etc. I just left it looping and jumped on each time the bus came past. What could be better? 8)

Stand By Me

The clip made a big difference because it felt like Nils was there showing me how to play it - in a nice simple easy to follow way. But, again, we could have taken it much further if we had been able to do some more work on it as a group over a week, or whatever. We could have embellished it a bit, helped those who had trouble changing chords or getting the strum right, etc, and worked up to playing the song all the way through. Maybe worked on the singing too. We could have talked about amp settings, and....well, all those dozens of small things that make the difference between a set of chords coming out in several completely different ways, instead of what was intended... :?

OK. Enough from me. If there's little interest from the Forum Admins, then so be it. But it does seem that an opportunity is going begging... :)

Cheers,

Chris
You need to get iTunes. A site like this, while it's a lot and i've got a lot out of it myself, is not going to always be everything you need all the time.