Easy leads and riffs for beginners.

You need to get iTunes. A site like this, while it's a lot and i've got a lot out of it myself, is not going to always be everything you need all the time.

iTunes? Why? Isn't that just another gadget that's going to take me further away from contact with other musicians, instead of closer?

I'm not expecting that this site is "always going to be everything you need all the time" - that's not my point. My point is that we could help each other more effectively than we are now. I am not saying that somebody else should do all this for me - I'm saying we could do it together. 8)

Perhaps I have been unclear about this - but I am not a new beginner whining that somebody should help me. I'm perfectly capable of learning songs on my own - I already know a bunch of them. I can read music. I can and do buy books and sheet music, and I have several local real world musician friends who I can ask any day of the week for specific help if I need it. I used to own a CD shop, and my good friend still does own the local guitar shop, etc :D I'm trying to present the general viewpoint of learners - and particularly new learners - and give some ideas about how we could better use the resources here, and all have some fun while we're at it.

If I really wanted to learn one of the songs in the Easy Songs database, I could assemble everything I need in a relatively short space of time - cheerfully pay the cost - and then spend a few days learning it. What would be missing would be the opportunity to share that experience with a bunch of others online and to be able to help others further back down the track than myself in the process.

Can't you see the difference? :)

(EDIT: Sorry - that last comment wasn't meant to sound aggressive. I just know that when I write long posts, what I hoped to convey sometimes gets lost in the torrent of words. :? This whole thing was initially sparked off by my getting some PMs from a couple of newer members who seemed to be finding it a bit overwhelming at the start. And nobody wants to be the uncool one asking to many 'newbie' questions in public. Whereas I'm not shy, so I don't mind 'asking by proxy' and I always learn something too. Alway still a student.... 8) )

Cheers,

Chris

I think this is a great idea, Chris, and would cheerfully support the project.

I don't think you've been unclear at all and what you're trying to achieve here is a great concept and would be welcome by beginners and others alike.

There are many great resources here at GN -- some of which are well under-used -- but what you propose sounds like it will tie a lot of those resources together and also provide a group setting for tackling a new piece.

I look forward to seeing this off the ground. :D

since we all agree can we not just do it ?

something like this........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bea60o_JPIk

of course broken down bit by bit....WES where are you !

Keith

It would be nice to be able to play like that

You need to get iTunes. A site like this, while it's a lot and i've got a lot out of it myself, is not going to always be everything you need all the time.

iTunes? Why? Isn't that just another gadget that's going to take me further away from contact with other musicians, instead of closer?

Chris,

I think that was in response to needing a CD. I think your "legal" issue is going to be in placing a link to music that is on a CD somewhere out there. But if someone has iTunes or even Amazon.com will have samples of a song so that legally you could listen to a 30 sec clip and get an ideal how its supposed to go. I am not sure if that helps or not, but thought I would throw that out there.

I would love something like this to take off too. But as others have said I think it should be a forum in itself, like SSG, rather than just a thread. Hey, look back at my previous posts.. I am not one for adding forums. :D but I can see the benefit in something like this.

Good luck, lemme know if I can help.

Jim

Chris,

I think that was in response to needing a CD. I think your "legal" issue is going to be in placing a link to music that is on a CD somewhere out there. But if someone has iTunes or even Amazon.com will have samples of a song so that legally you could listen to a 30 sec clip and get an ideal how its supposed to go. I am not sure if that helps or not, but thought I would throw that out there.

Jim

You've lost me there Jim. :? I don't quite get the business of needing a CD or linking to music that's on one? I'd assumed that we would just make our own clips as we went along.

I must admit I'm pretty out of touch with both the technology (ipods etc) and the legality of how far you can go in any direction. I had hoped that the Site owner and Admins here would have a clearer idea on those issues, as there is already plenty of TAB posted here.

I've spent some of the last couple of days looking around to see how others do it. One thing that surprised me was that you can find a huge range of stuff on YouTube. Not just sound clips of folks doing covers, but actual videos of original band performances. In theory you can only play them online, but it only took me a few minutes to work out how to save the clips and play them later, so I'm sure all the kids know how to do it too.

There were also plenty of very direct video lessons on YouTube, using known songs. Plus, I joined another forum to see what they were doing - and sure enough there was some good video material there too, with explicit demostrations of well known songs. It was both provided by the site staff, and linked to by members. 8) What I didn't see much of was copies of standard notation sheet music type representations of song. Just smaller fragments, or TAB style renderings. Maybe TAB and videos are what the punters want these days though? Maybe the traditionally notated stuff is more fiercely protected? Not sure.

Anyway, I have no capacity to change anything here - only make suggestions. If the Admins don't think they're worth pursuing, then that's their right. It's not my site. :) Some sort of response from those with the decision-making power would have been nice but, hey, that's life...

Anyway, I'm going to spend a day or two at some of the other places that I found when I was looking to see how others handled the whole situation of organising lessons and information sharing. I've already come across plenty of familiar names from here - so maybe people shop around for their lessons and sessions and just come here for a chat? Who knows?

One thing's for sure, the whole music situation seems fairly volatile. :shock: Interesting times though. In the last couple of days I've collected enough instructions, videos, and general music info to keep me in song learning material for months! I'd better get on with playing it. :wink:

Cheers,

Chris

Chris,

I think that was in response to needing a CD. I think your "legal" issue is going to be in placing a link to music that is on a CD somewhere out there. But if someone has iTunes or even Amazon.com will have samples of a song so that legally you could listen to a 30 sec clip and get an ideal how its supposed to go. I am not sure if that helps or not, but thought I would throw that out there.

Jim

You've lost me there Jim. :? I don't quite get the business of needing a CD or linking to music that's on one? I'd assumed that we would just make our own clips as we went along.

Ohh, I think I may have misunderstood you. In one post I was thinking you said that the people doing this would need a clip of the song and i assumed you meant like the original recording. So, I was just trying to helpfully point out a way to get such a clip without getting into any copyright infringment stuff.

I still havent figured out how to save clips from YouTube. Frustrates the heck outta me to cause one of my favorite musicians has two clips out there where he shows how to play his songs.

Take care Chris. Dont play too much.. it will make the fingers too tender to post. LOL

Jim

If the admins don't want a separate forum for it, maybe someone could just start it as a recurring monthly thread in the Beginners forum. It would sure be nice to know what to do with those songs other than just strum the chords over and over. A step-by-step type format might be nice. Start with the chords and some strumming patterns that work for the song, then when you get that down add a nice intro, then some easy little riffs. I just think it's a great idea, especially for those of us who don't have other musicians nearby. I'd hate to see it die just because the admins are too busy to tend to it right now, or whatever.

I still havent figured out how to save clips from YouTube.
Nothing to figure, you're not supposed to be able to. However...

- Go to the clip in question and copy the URL of the whole page

- Go to the best kept secret in the world, http://keepvid.com and paste the URL in the big box there, and hit 'go'

- Two seconds later you're on a new page with a link to the FLV (flash video format that YouTube uses) which you right click on and download.

- You can now either find a freebie FLV player (I haven't found a good one yet) or, for further adventures...

- Download RIVA FLV encoder.

- Another best-kept secret: RIVA is for encoding MPGs and AVIs to FLVs, but if you just change the name in the output box to blah.mpg, it decodes FLVs to MPGs (and similarly with the .avi extension to AVIs). Bit of a quirky program (for example, the progress indicator is broken and it looks like it's crashed, but it does work) and the quality isn't great as it's compressing something that's already compressed. Synching can be a bit of a problem, but then it already is on YouTube so I doubt there's anything that can be done. But hey, it works and it's free. :wink:

Best of all, KeepVid works with loads of that type of video site, including Google Video... Have fun!

i haven't re-read what made me originally sugges iTunes but I think it was because you said that sound clips help you out in learning, (and of course, knowing how the song is supposed to go would always do that.) i don't want to be contentious here but there is already a forum for collaborations. this idea could be a part of that.

i also don't want to tell anyone what they SHOULD value in playing but what I like personally is hearing a song, learning the chord changes and playing it MY way. i think it's in the spirit of guitar music. i'm not looking for how to sound just like the CD or how to sound like someone else or how to play it the same as someone else.

but i'm interesterd in what the admin's around here have to say about this idea. i don't mean to be critical of it. it's just that i think it already fits into existing forums.

also don't want to tell anyone what they SHOULD value in playing but what I like personally is hearing a song, learning the chord changes and playing it MY way. i think it's in the spirit of guitar music. i'm not looking for how to sound just like the CD or how to sound like someone else or how to play it the same as someone else.

I don't know where this emphasis on CDs is coming from - certainly not from me. :?

I've never copied a song off a Cd ever. It's not the way I like to work. I love to noodle and improvise - the majority of of my learning method involves doing that. But I do believe that there's more to music than chord changes. I also don't like to use my desire for musical freedom as an excuse for not being able to play in time or being able to accurately and deliberately reproduce particular phrasing, styles, tempos, or whatever.

All I'm suggesting is that "workshopping" the same piece together is a fun way to work. I believe that part of that process is to start with a full set of information about the song or piece you're going to work on. After all it's what players need to know if they ever hope to move on from playing day-dream guitar in the bedroom to working with other musicians. After that, if ten members end up developing ten different interpretations - great! But at least they can help each other do it.

The idea of sound or video clips is mostly that we can say "hey, look/listen - this is what I've done so far - what do you think?". Talking about music only goes so far - it's doing it that counts. :)
but i'm interesterd in what the admin's around here have to say about this idea. i don't mean to be critical of it. it's just that i think it already fits into existing forums.

I think it would be best in its own section - in the same way that the SSG is kept separate from the main songwriting forum, even though it could have been incorporated into the other songwriting forum too.

Certainly it would be OK to just do it as an extension of the Easy Songs or Jams. But it would be clearer, and less intrusive on the other aims of those places, if kept apart. But all this is academic if the Admins aren't interested (and it looks that way so far :( ) or they are worried about practical or legal issues. It would also need the regular involvement of people to guide and make choices each week/month or whatever. Maybe finding the right team would be a problem. It seems to work elsewhere and in other fields, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily fit the style they like here.

Anyway, it my searches around the net I've found a few other sites which already use many of the methods I'm talking about, so I'm going to hang out there for a while and see how it really works out. What works in practice doesn't always match the theory or original vision, so it will be fun to find out how it does work.. :D

Cheers,

Chris

For what it's worth: getting the CD or using Itunes is a great way to hear how it's done, a lot of stuff just can't be written out on a forum. Listening to how professional players play a certain strumming pattern or chord progression can help you a lot. I find you can learn a lot more from the GN song lessons when you have the actual recording nearby, it gives more insight in how you can make your own version of a song.

That aside, great idea chris. :D

Personally, I think iTunes is great. When I learn a new song i always get it in iTunes. It's only $0.99---you don't have to buy the whole CD to hear the song. Don't mean to hijack the thread here.

In any case, if this idea is to work at all, each "lesson" would need a "teacher" otherwise confusion will happen. also, find the "Breakfast in America" thread in Easy Songs. I think someone tried to do something like what you're talking about with that song. The thread lived for a short time. I don't know what ever bacame of it.

Are they still doing all that proprietry format rubbish? I'm waiting till they stop before I try it out :wink: