Easy leads and riffs for beginners.

Surly as regards the legal issue it would be no different than what is posted on easy songs taking a song from there or dissecting it up and learning it with the help from others correct me if im wrong

Personally, I think iTunes is great. When I learn a new song i always get it in iTunes. It's only $0.99---you don't have to buy the whole CD to hear the song. Don't mean to hijack the thread here.

OK. I'm on the same wavelength now :D I've enlightened my ignorance about iTunes a bit and it certainly sounds like great way to buy and use music. I don't use credit cards or buy online so it's not something I've ever used. But it would certainly be a handy tool for someone wanting to learn songs. It sounds reasonably priced too.

In any case, if this idea is to work at all, each "lesson" would need a "teacher" otherwise confusion will happen.

Watcha got against confusion?? :? :? :P

Seriously, I don't think that a "teacher" as such is necessary. The songwriter forum has no teacher and that works fine. It does need some sort of coordinator, or regular sub-group who decide the topic, but that's about all. Workshopping should be a joint process, not a traditional teacher and class thing.

The concept of "Workshopping" is widely used in all manner of business and practical situations. It's actually what we're doing right now on this thread - workshopping the idea and seeing what can be made of it. :D I hope and expect that all our ideas on the subject would be added to, changed, or improved by the input of others like yourself (as with the iTunes thing). The process should expose weakness, add value, and generally give an idea of whether it's a workable idea or something that sounds good but would fizzle because nobody else shared the same interest in doing things that way.

It's used in the theatre (which I've written for) to develop material, test it out and generally move it forward. It's also used by other creative writing groups. And basically, it's what happens when a groups of friends - or the members of band - get together and work on a song. There's a 'to and fro' of ideas, opinions and contributions (Sounds quite harmonious when you say it quickly doesn't it... :P ).

The basic process happens on threads here all the time, with people adding different contributions, questions, angles and expertise, and usually people learn something along the way. It seems kind of odd in a way that we don't do it more with the actual music.
also, find the "Breakfast in America" thread in Easy Songs. I think someone tried to do something like what you're talking about with that song. The thread lived for a short time. I don't know what ever bacame of it.

Breakfast in America

Great thread - thanks! :D

Yes, that's a good example of the cooperative process. Imagine that process, only with 10 or 20 regulars working together each week on the same task.

"Workshopping" can be used for anything - known songs, riffs, chord progression of the week - anything that could lend itself to a joint focus over a set period, say a week. Everybody has a bash at the same thing and reports back, asks for and/or offers help and so on.

One of the biggest difficulties facing learners (in any field, but certainly online with guitar) is lack of clear focus. There's just so much on the net - where do you start? I suspect that the average forum visitor 'views' a fair chunk of lessons, songs, etc. but only attempts a very small proportion of them. Of those that do begin something I'd suggest that only a tiny proportion of them ever finish the lesson or learn the song.

Weekly groups like the SSG - or a regular workshop on other aspects of music - can give that focus and provide motivation and encouragement.

Trust me.... 8) Or not... :twisted:

Cheers,

Chris

Surly as regards the legal issue it would be no different than what is posted on easy songs taking a song from there or dissecting it up and learning it with the help from others correct me if im wrong

I'd agree Frank. (Can I say "Frankly, I think you're right" ? Or are you sick to death of those sort of stupid puns..... :P )

By posting the TABs at all you've already trodden on some of the publishing houses' toes - or at least that's the way they seem to see it.

But saying "don't do that" and legally enforcing it are two different things. The first rule of suing anybody is to make sure they're worth suing in the first place. A lot of people get away with things by remaining fairly low key and not sticking their heads too high over the trenches. Maybe that's the thinking here?

I once spent a week trying to find out what the legal position really is (in my State) with regard to trading or reselling computer games. The EULAs (licence agreements) stipulate all manner of amazing restrictions, but they're mostly bluff. You can't make the laws of other countries all around the world simply by stating a wish list and demanding compliance. Nor can you expect that 'they' (read 'The Government') are going to run around enforcing your demands for you.

I rang everybody from shop owners and distributors to the Police, Law Society, and Consumer Protection bodies. Nobody could tell me - nobody. The best offer was from the legal guys who said they could provide a list of law firms who I could hire to mount a legal test case in the courts! :roll:

All I can say is that some big TAB sites have been directly threatened with legal action and appear to have been sufficiently scared to change their tack. Whereas other sites have videos, TABS, lines of traditional notation, original sound clips and all sorts of goodies. As I'm not a site owner myself I've not looked that deeply into where the arguments currently stand. I just join in the fun. :)

Cheers,

Chris

would'nt it be nice if we got decision on this whole thing from the higher authorities or will this be another post that's going to disappear into thin air through the pages of "your suggestions for guitar noise" forum?
I think we could at least give it a trial run anyhow?

would'nt it be nice if we got decision on this whole thing from the higher authorities or will this be another post that's going to disappear into thin air through the pages of "your suggestions for guitar noise" forum?
I think we could at least give it a trial run anyhow?

Its already happening right HERE

Atleast the trial run is

Jim

would'nt it be nice if we got decision on this whole thing from the higher authorities or will this be another post that's going to disappear into thin air through the pages of "your suggestions for guitar noise" forum?
I think we could at least give it a trial run anyhow?

Its already happening right HERE

Atleast the trial run is

Jim

Not really for beginners, that one though, is it?

would'nt it be nice if we got decision on this whole thing from the higher authorities or will this be another post that's going to disappear into thin air through the pages of "your suggestions for guitar noise" forum?
I think we could at least give it a trial run anyhow?

Its already happening right HERE

Atleast the trial run is

Jim

Not really for beginners, that one though, is it?

You may be right. I dont know. I have downloaded the files and listened to the song but I havent tried to play it yet. Its funny though, the word beginners when used with guitarist is difficult to qualify. I still consider myself a beginner although I write and play songs in a band.. so forth. But I remember when I first started and I was a beginner and I couldnt switch between two chords.

I think the term beginner is tough to define.

Jim

I think the term beginner is tough to define
Aye, it's all relative :wink:

I think the term beginner is tough to define
Aye, it's all relative :wink:

OK, then, let's just say it's not for absolute beginners, who know a handful of chords and strumming patterns, but nothing about improvising or lead playing (on the guitar at least). Not something I could participate in yet, at any rate. Looks like fun, but not something I could keep up in at all.

I'd like to see a project that starts with strumming some simple chords, then adds some variety to the strumming, or a few more chords or a few single notes here and there, goes on to add an intro and outro, then maybe adds some simple interior riffs. Then maybe a solo lead in there. Something that lets you start the project slow and simple and then gradually fancy it up into something that sounds great.

Not really for beginners, that one though, is it?
yes i would agree with you not what i was think of either :?

OK, then, let's just say it's not for absolute beginners, who know a handful of chords and strumming patterns, but nothing about improvising or lead playing (on the guitar at least). Not something I could participate in yet, at any rate. Looks like fun, but not something I could keep up in at all.

Hey, just what I thought! For the first few seconds... :)

Everything about guitar is hard if you try and see the whole thing in one huge chunk. The trick is to break it down into small bits and pieces until each one is small enough and simple enough to work on. Then you slowly build it up (much like in the idea that you outlined in the rest of your post).

Greybeard's material is just fine to work on. The TAB's there, the clip is clear, and we're just trying to build a melody, one note at a time. It's already broken into small chunks that repeat. Playing the whole piece right off the bat is out of the question. But one note? Two? Could we stretch to three? It doesn't matter if we're not Hank Marvin by the end, we can learn a heap as we go though.. :D

Break it down into smaller and smaller steps until each one is so simple a child could take them ...

...it's a great way to work....

..I've taught myself to build an entire house that way...and build all my computers...and figure out the fretboard...and teach my son to communicate and dress himself...and..geez, way too many things to list.. :wink:

Cheers,

Chris

so lads has anything come out of this?
anyone like to get this together i see nothing is going on over in other post
lets like get a song and go for it

Maybe if we tried this as a test thread, perhaps in "Jams and Collaborations" for example, we might test the waters, see what kind of response we get? If it took off, maybe the powers-that-be (no not you Austin!) would think seriously about a separate "Workshop Forum?"

:D :D :D

Vic