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Questions about scales

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(@srpntmage)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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I'm pretty new to this, and I need some explanation. What are scales used for? I keep hearing about the Pentamic scale and how it is used in rock music a lot. I have also been hearing it is useful to know them when trying to improvise. Is this true, and is that their only use? Thanks


   
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(@goodvichunting)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 326
 

My Fav
https://www.guitarnoise.com/author/jamieandreas/

Dave Hodge has also written a number of excellent articles on scales.
Check em out.

Cheers

Latest addition: Cover of "Don't Panic" by Coldplay
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=502670


   
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(@jonnyt)
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Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 336
 

"Everybody solo!"

To put it simply, every solo you have ever heard is based on some sort of scale. Learn the notes in the chords being played and the notes in your scale, and you can make a quick jump forward in your improvising... but it takes time and lots of practice.

Guitar Noise Member Noteboat stated it best...


IMPROVISING TIPS:

Scales by themselves won't sound cool - it's what you do with them that matters... and you can use any scale to make a cool solo. The most common scales will be the pentatonics and the blues scale for rock soloing, followed by the major and harmonic minor scales.

In any scale, you'll have a few tones that sound really, really solid against the chord, one or two others that sound weaker but still ok, and the remaining two or three that don't sound terrible, but they don't sound great (I'm talking about one note held over the chord here). They're all important in building solos.

A solo is constructed of phrases. They can be bits of scale runs, parts of arpeggios, leaps from one note to another, or all of the above. You want to know where the strong notes are, because that's where you want to be at the chord change - if you're in C, and the chord is changing from C to F, you want to land on a note that's in the F chord (F, A, or C). The F will sound the most solid, and that's often used to end a solo - land on the root note of the final chord, and everything before that point sounds a little more intentional.

For the chord changes before that last chord, roots are ok - but you don't really want to hit a root at every chord change... it gets boring having all these 'final' sounds in a solo. Fifths are great for those in-between chords... so for the C-F change, you'd want to hit the C note at the chord change, and keep going from there.

I'd tackle it in this order, and you'll see a noticeable improvement in the way you sound.

1. Learn the scale you want to use next
2. Figure out the chords used in the rhythm track
3. Learn the note spellings of those chords (you can learn the spellings of major, minor, and seventh
chords by rote - you're only talking about 36 different chords - and it'll pay off for everything you play)
4. Figure out where those chord tones fall in the scale - especially the roots and fifths. For a progression in
C, with C-F-G7 chords, you're only locating notes C, D, F, and G.
5. Play around with your improvising, landing on G or C for C chords, C or F for F chords, and D or G for
G7 chords.

The next step is a tough one... you want to play the notes you mean to play. We all start improvising in a pretty random fashion, hitting notes from the scale or scales we've learned. That ends up with random solos... sometimes they'll sound great, sometimes they'll suck. To get beyond that, you need to make the connection between head/ears/fingers. Think of a melody, and play it. It'll probably be different from what you heard in your mind. Figure out where you went wrong, and fix it. Repeat with a different melody. (This stage takes some time - keep working at it!)

You want to reach the point where the phrases you play are the ones you meant to play - at that point, you're not doing random notes, but communicating your musical idea. At that point, you're really improvising - and it's quite a rush!

The final step takes a lifetime... listening to what others do, copping their great ideas and making them your own, stretching your ears to new sounds and making your fingers follow, finding your own voice, and honing it.

Jazz author Hal Crook gives guidelines for the stages of melodic improvising that players go through...

Beginner - developing accuracy in expressing your musical ideas (the first 4-6 years)
Intermediate - developing 'musicality' in those ideas (the next 4-8 years)
Advanced - having those ideas be both musical and creative in the way they build a solo (the next 6-8 years)
Master - being consistently musical, creative, and original - another 12 or more years, for 30+ years total.

E doesn't = MC2, E = Fb

Music "Theory"? "It's not just a theory, it's the way it is!"

Jonny T.


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

For the second part of the question, that's not their only use.

Scales are one of the basic building blocks of music. All intervals are identified in terms of major scales, and all chord formulas are understood in terms of major scales.

If you saw a chord symbol like E7#9+, you'd interpret it in terms of the root (E) scale. The '7' tells you it'll have the b7 note of the scale - maj7 means the natural seventh note - the #9 tells you the chord will include the second note, but raised a half step, and the + tells you that the fifth will be raised a half step.

If you know the scales, you can take the E major scale:

E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#-E

and spell this chord:

E-G#-B#-D-Fx (F double-sharp, or G)

Knowledge of scales can also help you know which chords fit naturally into each key, what modulations will be smoothest between keys, and they serve as the foundation for study of all other aspects of music theory... harmony, counterpoint, composition all depend on knowing your scales.

The critical scales to learn depend on what kind of music you'll be playing. Every musician should know the major scales, and the three minor scales - after that, learn what's appropriate to your style. If you're doing blues, learn the pentatonic and blues scales; if you're doing jazz, the Dorian and Lydian are important, etc.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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 300m
(@300m)
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Nice responces. Just when I think I am getting somewhere I realize I still have a lot to learn

John M


   
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(@srpntmage)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 40
Topic starter  

8) wow, those are great replys, thank you. Man I have a lot to learn, much of that I will have to re-read after I understand theory a bit better. Sometimes the amount I have to learn is very daunting. :?


   
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(@gizzy)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 109
 

I know for me learning the Pentatonic scales has opened many doors since I like to play the blues, learning all the chords Major and Minor to each key helped as well and then combining the scales with the chords gives you something without ever using Tabs.

:D


   
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(@anonymous)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

Another benefit of knowing scales is the simple fact that you will also learn where each and every note is on the fretboard.
If you study the scales in the form of musical notation you also will know where on the staff a certain note is and where you can play that note on your guitar.


   
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(@pamparius)
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Posts: 173
 

Nice responces. Just when I think I am getting somewhere I realize I still have a lot to learn

Well put. I feel just the same. 8)

"Trying is the first step towards failure."


   
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