I am almost a rank newbie, able to play a few snippits of a few songs only. Teaching myself via online sites, youtube, practice exercises, etc. I'm trying to find a more structured path, and thanks to a couple other posts in here, I think I may have found some good resources.
I apologize if this topic has already been covered ad nauseum, I searched the first several pages and can't seem to find it (either that or I suck at searching). It seems like it should be a frequent question, so please feel free to point me in the right direction if good resources already exist.
I've currently got an 11 year old Ibanez GRX that I got from my brother (who himself got it secondhand) a few years back. This is the only guitar I've ever played. I did have it professionally set up a few years ago, and it feels ok although I don't have anything to really compare it to. I constantly have the urge to purchase something newer, fancier, and more expensive, but my wife (who does have some background in musical instruments, although not guitar) insists that an $800 guitar isn't going to make me learn any faster or any better.
I must admit that I really don't know what the differences are between what I have and the shiny expensive guitars I see online and in music stores. The obvious answer would be "try some other ones", but that's hard. Since I'm such a horrible player, I feel too self-conscious to pick up a display model at a store, or even worse ask a clerk to get one down for me so I can fumble around with it screwing up some simple songs. I'd be so busy worrying that I don't know that I could focus on an honest comparison between what was in my hands and what I was used to.
So, I guess the question is, cosmetic differences aside, what makes a $800 guitar better than a $400 guitar, and what makes that $400 guitar better than what I have? And of course, would I be able to notice the difference and would it help me at all?
Well most of what you will pay for is better hardware, finish etc. and for brands like Gibson and Fender you will be paying for the name also.
Your wife is pretty right on in that unless the guitar you have is totally unplayable buying a new guitar won't help in your learning other than possibly the fact that having a new toy may make yuo want to practice more.
I started with a fairly cheap Epiphone SG and used that for a year or two then bought a new MIM Fender Strat. Since then I have bought two more expensive guitars but I still play the Strat most of the time.
I think the more important thing is does the guitar feel right in your hands, you have to try them and feel them it may be a cheaper guitar feels the best. ( Of course they need to sound good too )
Just my two cents but the other thing you will find out and you will need to explain this in detail to your wife is that once you start on this journey of playing the guitar you become afflicted with a disease no guitar player has ever been able to avoid and that is the G.A.S. syndrome or more commonly known as Guitar Acquisition Syndrome.
If you hang around here long enough I'm sure you'll meet alot of players that have been afflicted with this terrible disease. You will find yourself buying guitars for no other reason than you wanted a blue one or a white one or an acoustic....it goes on and on.
Good luck.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
The guitar you have is fine, but, do you want a new one? Can you afford it? I agree with your wife as well. Even a cheap Ibanez is a pretty good guitar and if it has been setup well it should be player friendly. A new one won't help you learn, but as I said, if you can afford it and want it why not? I am one of the ones here with a butt load of guitars but as I have gone along over the years I have tended to buy cheaper instruments. They play just fine when setup well.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
Thanks for the replies.
I honestly don't know if the guitar in my hands is an "awesome entry-level guitar" (as almost every review of any cheap guitar claims), or a complete flaming pile of crap, because I have nothing to compare it to nor would I know what to compare if I did. The only thing that sounds somewhat "wrong" to me is some power chords sound horrible when I have two strings ringing at the same time (I think it is the D string and and G string, but it could be A and D, I'll have to check when I get home) and I wonder if a guitar with better pickups would make those sound better. That's also the other thing that makes me lust after fancier guitars, the sweet tones I hear in videos that I can't seem to come close to reproducing. I assume those are the expensive pickups doing that? I -think- my GAX is made out of basswood with a maple neck, which should be a fine sounding wood combination from what I've read, so the ho-hum distorted tones I get would mostly be due to cheapie cheap pickups, right?
I do have a little peavy 15w amp that lives in the closet, I couldn't ever get any good distorted tone out of that, I do almost all my practice either unplugged, or plugged into my computer where I'm runing amplitube.
Regarding GAS, my wife is already quite familiar with it through my headphone habit (Currently have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880s, Alessandro MS1s, and Sennheiser HD650s, having gone through several others in the past) and her stepfather is a 30+ year bassist, with a whole room downstairs at their place dedicated to his collection of expensive bass guitars. She has told me that we can discuss purchasing an expensive instrument when I'm good enough to warrant it. I of course, love having nice things (which you can tell by that list of headphones if you know anything about that hobby), so I want the nice guitar right away. I don't want to admit it to her, but I don't actually know what it is that makes a nice guitar, well, nice.
I get that apparently the country it's made in is a really big deal, with (if I'm understanding correctly) USA and Japan at the top, followed by Korea and Mexico, then China and Indonesia? Something like that? I don't understand why though. I assume that anything in my price range is going to be factory-made anyway, as opposed to a custom job, what makes a guitar from a Japanese factory $800 better than a Korean one from the same brand that looks nearly identical, and in turn what makes the Korean one $200 better than the nearly identical Indonesian one?
Also, when it comes to the differences in hardware, what truly matters, and what is just fluff? Assuming we're past the "complete budget crap" level, does the nut matter? do the tuners matter? etc. I notice that the larger brands will have, let's say, 4 or 5 different versions of the same-shaped guitar in their lineup, with several hundred (or thousand!) dollars separating them. How do you know where to "jump in" so as to not waste hundreds of dollars on "stepping up" to guitars with small-to-no improvements over previous models in the lineup, yet avoid say, spending $300 on a given guitar where you could have gotten a much better instrument from the same company for $400? Is there anything to look out for?
When I read your post it seems to me like a bike when you're younger. Your brother got one second hand, and you got it after your brother. Still, it isn't your bike.
A new guitar won't suddenly get you to play like a pro. On the other hand, I don't believe that's what you're expecting. The way I read it I believe it's worth it and for a very simple reason too. The fact you're thinking about it in this way means it means something to you.
To me my guitar is more than just a piece of wood and strings. When I was looking for a Gibson SG, I would've gone for a Standard instead of a Special. The Standard has trapezoid inlays and a few other fancy finishes for a few hundred dollars. I can understand people choosing the special, but to me it's like wearing a costume. You won't suddenly be better or anything, but the feeling you get when you wear it is worth it. And that's what I expect from my guitars. When I look at my guitar, I know exactly why it was that one in particular I picked. It wasn't the most expensive one I could afford, but it was my choice to make.
It might feel as if you're "settling", or something you don't like, or even just being unsure that's what you want. Not every choice we make has to be completely rational, humans are still emotional beings however much we forget. Just go to the store and have a look. Ask to try a few. Any guitarist knows how they started and knows the work put into it. There's no way you can't respect that. A guitar's a long term investment, over time it's not immensely expensive if you enjoy it. Play a few of the cheap ones, play a few of the most expensive ones. You might even find yourself satisfied without buying one, because you'll know why.
A great guitarist can make any guitar sound sweet. A newbie can make any guitar sound awful. It's all down to experience, getting to learn the sounds that your preferred guitar/amp combination can put out. What you need to ask yourself is:
What sort of music do I want to play?
What sort of guitar do my musical heroes play?
Which amp do I need to get the sounds I want from my guitar?
You don't mention your musical tastes in your original post, perhaps if you mentioned a few bands you like, or guitarists you like, we'd be able to help more. There are people here who can advise you on any aspect of guitar playing - but you have to ask the right questions!
All the best,
:D :D :D
Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)
There will eventually be funds to purchase a new guitar, convincing the wife to let me appropriate them (as opposed to spending them on other things) is the hard part. I would hope that I'd eventually be able to pony up for something in the $400+ range, perhaps as much as $800 but that'll be unlikely for awhile.
I'm probably most interested in playing hard rock, alternative rock, metal, and classic rock. To give you an idea, the songs I've currently attempted (with varying degrees of success) are G'n'R's sweet child of mine, Metallica's One and Fade to Black, Ozzy's Crazy Train, and zepplin's stairway to heaven.
I want to be able to play g'n'r, u2, pearl jam, pink floyd, ac/dc, metallica, megadeth, sabbath/ozzy, etc. One day I'd love to be able to play speed/black metal like kalmah or children of bodom, but right now that sort of thing looks way way far away.
I know, I'm asking for a guitar that can do everything at a budget to boot, if there was one that did that, everybody would have it already. Is there something that can fit the bill here though? I'm not looking for something that's a one-genre wonder, like a jackson flying V with two EMGs packed into it (pardon me if i offended anybody there) etc. I've looked (longingly) at various points at things like the Schecter C-1, the LTD EC-1000 (or 401), Epiphone Les Paul and SG, Micheal Kelly Patriots, and several others, although admittedly I didn't necessarily have the greatest reasoning behind any of them at the time.
I don't have any real hero worship. I'm not looking to pick up a les paul just because slash plays one, or an explorer because that's what james hetfield used to rock out on, etc. I don't know one brand from another very well, other than gibson and fender are the two biggest names, and then there's a whole host of tier 2s like etc, schecter, jackson, charvell, and so on. I don't know which companies are making a "$400" guitar and adding an extra $200 for their name recognition to sell it for $600, and which companies are selling a "$400" guitar for an honest $400 (although I've heard several times that gibson and fender are guilty of name markup. I don't now how true that is.)
That's one of my major potential problems shopping for a new guitar, I'm not sure how to tell now, in my somewhat inexperienced state, if two $400 guitars side by side are both worth the money, or if one is a steal and the other is hideously overpriced. I know at some point down the road I'll hopefully have a better idea, but I'd rather have the nice guitar that whole time if there's some recommendations you guys could make?
I constantly have the urge to purchase something newer, fancier, and more expensive, but my wife (who does have some background in musical instruments, although not guitar) insists that an $800 guitar isn't going to make me learn any faster or any better.
The counter argument to this is to tell her that new shoes won't make her walk any faster, new clothes won't cover her any better, and new jewellery won't make look her any more beautiful than she already is (you have to take great care how you word it all though…). But they probably do all make her feel better about herself, put a smile on her face and a confident spring in her step, etc. You may of course get into a “if you get the new guitar, I get the new dress†situation, but trade-offs are always better than fights…
The question as to what would be a better choice is completely un-answerable by anybody but you, and is directly comparable to asking which is the best dress, or the best car. Some things are better bets than others but there's no clearly agreed yardstick, and there never will be.
The biggest mistake/bad habit with guitar isn't how you sit. where you put your thumb, or how you strum, it's simply not playing enough. A big percentage start with a rush of enthusiasm but taper off to nothing well before getting anywhere near the goals they may have set. So the best guitar for you is the one that you just fall in love with and just can't keep your hands off when you walk into the room where it is.(often for no more clearly definable reasons than we picked our partners). I have several guitars, including two which cost a grand or more but which both sit in cases which hardly ever get opened. By all objective assessments they are better guitars than the one sitting on a stand within arm's reach of where I'm sitting now. It's an undistinguished nylon strung Ibanez acoustic/electric. The difference is that I like the others but I love the Ibanez. Show the three to anybody else here and they'd be just as likely to pick one of the others.
Unless an instrument is a real dog, a good player will be able to make it sound great. No matter how good a guitar is a mediocre player will still sound mediocre. I couldn't advise you how to pick a guitar any more than how to pick a wife. The two I play the most are utterly different. The Ibanez cost very little. The other is an American Standard Strat that cost three times as much. Was it worth paying extra for the Fender name (if indeed I did pay more, which I'd question - it's a brilliant guitar)? Absolutely yes! Every time I hold it I get pleasure from owning something that has been such a part of history.It looks, feels and plays like a dream. I felt the same way about some of the cars I've owned too. The beaten up old pickup got me to the shops just as quickly as the sports cars, and for a fraction of the price too. But the journey just wasn't the same… :)
Good luck with the choice.
Chris
What do you guys think of the information on this page:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365675
I've been reading it, and it seems to answer most of my questions regarding what matters and is worthwhile to pay attention to, what is fluff, etc.
Still doesn't answer things like why a guitar from japan or the usa is 3x the price of one that is spec'd nearly identically but from china or indonesia... As of now, I'm working under the assumption that it's partially quality control concerns, partially perceived quality control concerns, partially prestige, and perhaps differences in construction materials (although this seems to be very hard to get any real data on).
Do you guys disagree with any of the information on that page (assuming you have time to read it)?
I read most of it and agree with most of what I read. I have heard before you are better off with an expensive amp and a cheap guitar than vice versa. I can see this logic to a point but there are some inexpensive amps out there that sound pretty good. I also think it is easier to find a quality guitar on the cheap than it is to find a good sounding cheap amp. They are trying to tell you you need to spend in excess of 1000 pounds (well over $1000) for a usable amp.
Anyone in this forum have an amp that cost well over $1000? Might be a couple. Not me though.
My most expensive amp is about a $700 combo and the one I use most is a $500 head on a $400 cabinet ($900 total) so maybe close. :? (I did not pay that though as I bought both on clearance for $300 and $270 respectively) I do have a $300 modeling amp that sounds darn good though. My cheapest guitar is $100, my most expensive would be $1350 new today. Average price of one of my guitars? (I have over 20) Probably $300 - $500. I guess I sort of follow the formula.
What if you can't afford the guitar and amp at the same time? Well I would say get a playable guitar first, then get the amp when you can afford it because an unplayable guitar with a great amp is still unplayable so makes no sound if you are not playing it. I guess i'm saying, sure, get an amp that is equal in price to twice the cost of the guitar, but you need to meet that minimum level of guitar first.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
First, for the OP . . . in your case, upgrade when you dang well WANT to. Gear doesn't need an excuse. :twisted:
Anyone in this forum have an amp that cost well over $1000? Might be a couple. Not me though.
My Fender '59 Bassman LTD retails for about $1400 new. It was second hand and gently used when I swapped a Martin D-15 for it.
It's my "big" amp now that I've retired Ampzilla - she cost about $1200 about 20 years ago.
My Blues Jr. carries about 60% of my gigs with the '59 Bassman and my Vox Pathfinder 15(for the really small stages) handling the rest of the workload.
Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.
What do you guys think of the Agile AL-3000/3100? Does anybody own one, or at least had a chance to try one? It seems to be pretty comparable to the LTD EC-1000 I was looking at at roughly half the price, except the Agile has generic pickups instead of Duncans, but I could always buy Duncans later. I watched a few youtube videos of it, and it sounds pretty applicable for the type of music I want to play except maybe the hardest metal, which I expect it'll be years before I can play well anyway.
It bothers me that I can't try one out at a local store since apparently the only place to get one is their web site, so hopefully someone has an informed opinion. The thing that worries me most is the neck. I'm used to a pretty thin neck on my ibanez, and I don't know how well I'd adjust to a thicker one like LPs tend to have. Is it really a big deal, or something that's usually pretty easy to get used to?
Agile does offer a thin neck version, but not in the finish I want.
I love my AL3000, it is one of my favorite guitars! Don't sell the Alnico V pickups short either. I own 2 Epiphone Les pauls as well as 2 Gibson Les Pauls. I'm equally at home playing the Agile.
Wanna hear it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xza9sV1ZgeI&feature=related
It bothers me that I can't try one out at a local store since apparently the only place to get one is their web site, so hopefully someone has an informed opinion.
Yeah, you can't try an Agile first but Kurt will take it back if you don't like it. And besides ......
The obvious answer would be "try some other ones", but that's hard. Since I'm such a horrible player, I feel too self-conscious to pick up a display model at a store, or even worse ask a clerk to get one down for me so I can fumble around with it screwing up some simple songs. I'd be so busy worrying that I don't know that I could focus on an honest comparison between what was in my hands and what I was used to.
:mrgreen:
Remember, none of us sounded any good when we started out. Play them, it's OK. :D
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
Honestly, I don't think an agile would be right. You should try guitars available and buy one of those. With an agile you are taking a risk of not liking the way it feels and weight of it. They are really good guitars for the price but if you don't like the playability then you just won't use it. Thats the way I see it.
Of course there are alot more experienced players than me on GN. This is just an afterthought.
When we started the band, it was because we were waiting for a sound that never happened. We got tired of waiting, and we decided to just do it ourselves. - Mike Shinoda
I finally got up the nerve to go to the guitar store today. I must have tried out about 8 or 9 different guitars, and not a single one of them felt "right". I like the bodies on the Epiphone Les Pauls, but the neck feels so fat after learning on my ibanez. I mean, I'm sure I could get used to it, but I'm not sure if I want to or not. If I got one (or one similar), I may turn out to like it more (chords did seem a little bit easier, but soloing felt harder) in the long run, but right now it feels weird.
I really liked the LTD EC-500 I tried, the neck was still thicker than my ibanez, but thinner than the les paul. It felt almost right for both chords and soloing. The body was thinner too, noticably so, by maybe 3/4 of an inch or more, but not much lighter. The fretboard was weird though. I can't place my finger (no pun intended) on exactly why. it felt small for some reason, "cramped" is almost the word, but not quite right. almost like the frets were closer together? I could still do chords with no problems.
I also tried several other body styles. I tried an SG (really light compared, similar neck to the les paul), an explorer (felt similar to hold it to my strat-shaped ibanez, similar neck to the les paul), a jackson V (Felt totally wrong, like it was balanced in the wrong place, I couldn't hold it properly and put it back after about 15-20 seconds), and a couple other single-cuts.
I think the single-cut shape is for me, it is my favorite one that I've held and played so far, but I didn't know that necks and fretboards varied this much.
Anybody with an agile been able to compare it directly to a les paul or an ec-400/1000? is the neck similar in thickness to the les paul or the LTD?
Ever single guitar I picked up had lower action than my ibanez, that tells me something at least. I'm learning in hard-mode. hah.
