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(@blutic1)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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I'm sure anyone reading this post has learned a major scale "pattern". I find it fascinating that you can use a single pattern to solo in major scale, a minor scale, AND all the modes; in every key! All you need to know is where to begin.


   
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(@voodoo_merman)
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True. But, don't make a habit out of thinking that way. That method is for those who want to cut corners. In that single 4 fret by 6 string box, you have all the notes you need sure. But, there is very little sonic variety to be had from a single pattern (comparatively). And, of course you are depriving yourself of a deeper, more accurate understanding of music and guitar playing.

Use your ears and mind not patterns to learn scales. Really try to hear each interval as it relates to the tonic and commit those note names to memory. Know what interval each note you play is. Know the note name and know why you are playing it, always. Get into the habit of doing this when learning scales rather than the pattern thing (for starters). And, you will be on your way to being a real musician rather than a patternist (yes, I am well aware that "patternist" is not a word...yet!)

The goal is to do this over and over and over and over until it becomes second nature. At that point, you won't need to do all that thinking. You'll speak music naturally with the scales almost as easily as you speak with words.

At this time I would like to tell you that NO MATTER WHAT...IT IS WITH GOD. HE IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL. HIS WAY IS IN LOVE, THROUGH WHICH WE ALL ARE. IT IS TRULY -- A LOVE SUPREME --. John Coltrane


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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I'd disagree that there's comparatively little sonic variety in any one fingering pattern. In any one position you can play about two octaves and a third - which is more than half the guitar's total range, and more range than the melody for practically all songs.

It's important to learn the whole fretboard, and I agree that the real goal is to be a musican. But there really is a lifetime's worth of melodic stuff available in any one place on the fretboard.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@kingpatzer)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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There's something to be said about being able to move :)

Say I want to play a nice little tune in C with a C-G-C-G-C-G alternating bass line, but the only pattern I know for major scales (and hence where I go to play "in C") is the pattern starting with the second finger on the 8th fret of the 6th string. Sure I"m only missing a few notes from the guitar's range -- not even an octave the low 'E', but how important those notes are!

I am left only being able to play from C up to G and back.

But if I know how to play with C-major in 3rd position I can go down to the G below as well as above.

Yeah, we're not playing more notes, but being able to choose which notes to include or exclude from our palette can be just as important as choosing the scale.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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(@noteboat)
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I think you misinterpreted what I was saying, King.

I wasn't disagreeing with the importance of being a "musician" rather than a "patternist". If the only position you know is the 7th position, you wouldn't be limited to notes in that major scale fingering. Which means if you hear a C-G-C-G bass line, one of two things is going on...

1. You have perfect pitch, and you know those are exactly the tones you want. If that's the case... well, you just find the tones and play them.

2. You don't have perfect pitch, but you hear that alternating bass pattern. You simply find the alternating fifths in the position you know: E-B-E-B, F-C-F-C, Gb-Db-Gb-Db, or G-D-G-D. Or you're matching a chord or melody you've already written, so you play it an octave higher - xx10xxx x10xxx.

Limiting a range to a couple octaves doesn't limit your melodic material much at all. Your bass line example is really an illustration of how the available range affects the arrangement[/] of additional lines - in this case, a bass line. If you were trying to write the same C-G-C-G melody for other instruments, you'd be left with the same choices - transpose, or re-arrange. If you gave me that bass line and said "arrange this for a choir", I wouldn't be able to write the melody for soprano - their lowest note is C. But I could write it for any of the other three voices.

A good illustration of what I mean is the piano. My piano has 88 keys... but I could play ANY of Bach's works (or Beethoven's) without ever touching the lowest or highest keys.

Knowing the whole range lets you use the whole range, but knowing a 2 octave + slice of it still doesn't equal having little variety.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@voodoo_merman)
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Yeah, we're not playing more notes, but being able to choose which notes to include or exclude from our palette can be just as important as choosing the scale.

This is what I was really trying to get across to whoever might be reading this thread. It is my belief that when you learn a scale on an instrument, you need to know how to play it at every available range and position on the instrument. This is secondary of course b/c it is the sound of the tones that is most important. But, you are not doing yourself any favors by learning a box or thinking in one. Pianists learn scales from top to bottom, bottom to top for a reason. Chords with the left and melody with the right is one reason. Variety and necessity is another.
Knowing the whole range lets you use the whole range, but knowing a 2 octave + slice of it still doesn't equal having little variety.

Thats quite right. I was wrong for saying "little variety". Perhaps less variety would have been a better. I just wanted to stress that a musical education is not about pattern memorization. You can certainly go a long ways with patterns but, you will have less of a knowledge of your instrument this way.

At this time I would like to tell you that NO MATTER WHAT...IT IS WITH GOD. HE IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL. HIS WAY IS IN LOVE, THROUGH WHICH WE ALL ARE. IT IS TRULY -- A LOVE SUPREME --. John Coltrane


   
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