Letting Go

Howdy Beautiful Disaster. This song has a lot of potential.
Here's my 2 cents worth of suggestions:

"You're still the song that sounds in my soul,
You're still a dream, so far, no longer real,"
To this:
You're still the song that sounds in my soul,
But you're a dream who's no longer real
----------------------
"Me, love and you... Three halves of something whole,
If one is missing, everything is clear."
To this:
Me, love and you... Three parts of something whole, (three halves sounds unique but quirky)
If one is missing, where is the appeal
--------------------
"You can't recall my warm and loving glance,
I can't recall your glare, full of anger,
And... turn away; love left me no chance
To be your sweetest sin or perfect stranger."
To this:
You can't recall my warm and loving glance,
But I recall your glare, full of anger,
You... turned away; love left me no chance
To be your sweetest sin or perfect stranger.
---------------------
'I loved my own pain
When you could be a shield,
I seemed to be so weak,
Still not ashamed of it...'
To this:
When I was in pain
You could have been a shield
I was too weak
But not ashamed to yield...
---------------------
'I was so weak, yet was so strong,
Like pretty rose that has its thorns,
And now these thorns are all
That's left of me...'
To this:
Although I was weak, I was strong
A pretty rose that has some thorns
And now only thorns belong
To what's left of me...

Thanks for the reply, but I won't accept your suggestions - this work is widely known as it is now, and I like it this way.

And those changes wouldn't make anything better - the first one is grammatically incorrect - one can't say "a dream who", it should be exactly "a dream that", the second one would be the change in the favorite of all my own quotes, and "three halves" can't be replaced, as it emphasizes the fact that love is impossible, "three parts" would sound boring and ordinary, and the whole sentence would lose its meaning. The other changes would just destroy both the flow of the song and the meaning, as you suggested the words, opposite to mine, which had been carefully chosen to convey my feelings best.

Howdy Beautiful Disaster.
Thanks for the critique of the critique.
this work is widely known as it is now
If I had known that, I would have just made a comment on it.
I appreciate your correcting the grammer, "a dream who".
Looking fwd to your next posting.............LWJ

Once again B Disaster you shun critique and suggestions. As you seem full of yourself, again I ask why do you post here? Perhaps you feel we all need to see some real poetry/lyrics.

Yeah, it is one of the reasons.
The other ones are stated in my reply to "Sunday Morning".

Once again B Disaster you shun critique and suggestions. As you seem full of yourself, again I ask why do you post here? Perhaps you feel we all need to see some real poetry/lyrics.

:)
Young people in the full grip of poetry fever are notoriously difficult to advise or give feedback to, but at the risk of being given the sort of icy blast that's been dished up to everybody else who has tried, I'm going to have one more shot at it...

Hi BD,

There's nothing much wrong with this except that it has a rather high percentage of very familiar words, phrases and images. If you were really writing a song then you can get away with chucking in the odd cliché. But poets should try their hardest to avoid them – they make you look unoriginal, and poets hate that. Fortunately, I don't see any wounded doves, sightless ravens, or angels with broken wings here, and tears falling like rain already got used in the other one of yours that I read, but you've certainly managed to include a generous hatful of other images much beloved of this style of writing. Versions of this poem (most poems) have been written hundreds of times before. Absolutely nothing wrong with that – good themes get revisited more or less endlessly - but it's a great idea to at least try and avoid the most commonly used words and phrases. If you can spot them in your earlier drafts (which isn't always as easy as it sounds at the start) then you should switch them out for something a bit less obvious. Both posts also appear to have been written as poems rather than a songs, and they do tend to have different rhythmic and phrasing requirements when you actually try and sing them. But perhaps you had music in mind? If so, it's always good to share your ideas, as the focus here is songs rather than poetry.

I'm pretty sure that you'll hate the advice above, but please do try and swallow it if you can. Amateurs have a weakness for only wanting to hear praise, and learn nothing from the exercise, but the smarter writer listens to everything and learns a lot.

You look like you have lots of potential there. If you're in the 14 -18 range then you're going great guns. If you're heading towards the 20s and beyond then you should think about trying to come up with some different angles – and definitely experiment with some fresher phrasing.

Good luck with your writing – it can be a tough ride for the first few years, so hang in there.

Cheers,

Chris

1. I'm really not seeking any advice, as I won't make any changes.
2. I'm not an amateur, I'm an experienced lyricist.
3. I'm 18, but this was written when I was 16.
4. I've already changed my style of writing, now I write lyrics which are very different from what is in this thread.

1. I'm really not seeking any advice, as I won't make any changes.
So I'll ask again, why post lyrics when you're going to totally ignore any feedback on them, unless it's of the "Oh, WOW, this is fabulous, magnificent, we're not worthy to be in your illuminating presence...etc" persuasion?
2. I'm not an amateur, I'm an experienced lyricist.
Unless you're a professional songwriter, and make a living from music, then yes, you are very much an amateur.
3. I'm 18, but this was written when I was 16.
It's nice to know that at such a tender age, you have the answers for everything. I look forward to living under your Premiership/Dictatorship/Godhood. How can you possibly be an experienced ANYTHING, let alone lyricist, at such a young age? You've hardly begun to experience life yet, let alone have all the answers. At 18, I thought adults were stoooopid - when I grew up a little, I was surprised how much they'd learned.
4. I've already changed my style of writing, now I write lyrics which are very different from what is in this thread.
Strange, but I don't see much difference between your latest work and this - the same teenage angst, the same imagery - although it's a little more polished - and the same intransigence, the same unwillingness to change anything. Is it that you're so far advanced compared to the rest of us that we're simply irrelevant, as mentioned elsewhere?

ABD, you have potential - I'd like to see you make the most of it. But as I've said before, there's absolutely no point in asking for comments unless you're willing to take advice on board. As I've also said before, nobody's perfect - I'm still trying to write great songs at age 51, and I'm a long way off yet. I am, however, willing to listen to advice - if someone doesn't like something I've written, I want to know why it doesn't work then I can fix it.

But your stubborn attitude, and refusal to accept that you're less than perfection, isn't winning you any friends here. You could do a lot worse than listen to the likes of Chris C - he's been around the block (well, the world actually!) a few times, and I, amongst many others on this site, value his friendship and comments - I've always found them well thought out, intelligent, objective and constructive.

You DO have talent, or at least potential - what you make of it is up to you.

:D :D :D

Vic

1. Most of my new works haven't been published anywhere, so you couldn't see them.
2. I never asked anyone for comments, I post my lyrics with the other purpose!
3. The age is not the reason to judge about a person's experience. A 15 year old person may have experienced more than a 50 year old one, it depends on the circumstances. I have experienced enough, and yes, I'm an experienced lyricist, as you can't call a person who's been writing for over four years an amateur.

And I'm really sick of this discussion, so I quit.
Honestly, it seems like you have nothing else to do rather than sit here and post this all.

Most of my new works haven't been published anywhere, so you couldn't see them.

I wrote "work," not "works" - there's a difference. I'm talking about your latest work HERE!
I'm an experienced lyricist, as you can't call a person who's been writing for over four years an amateur.

Actually - I can. Do you make a living from songwriting? Is it your main source of income? If so, then you're a professional songwriter - if not, you're an amateur. A professional songwriter would realise when a line just doesn't work and would change it - an amateur wouldn't.

I've been writing songs for many years. I've been writing songs that I'm reasonably satisfied with for about four years or so - since I started writing about the suggested topics in the Sunday Songwriter's Group, where I've found the advice and the criticism invaluable. A lot of people have had good things to say about my songs - but I am still an amateur songwriter, trying to polish my work, trying to get better, as, doubtless, you are.

But I'm probably wasting my time.....my advice will probably, as it has done so far, fall on deaf ears.

Good luck with your writing.

:D :D :D

Vic

And I'm really sick of this discussion, so I quit.
Honestly, it seems like you have nothing else to do rather than sit here and post this all.

Being rude to people here will only add to your increasingly poor reputation. :(

The fact that Vic is prepared to put his time in here is a major bonus for those of us who are able to appreciate it. Vic has been playing for many years, both in private and in public, and has written over a hundred songs that we've had the opportunity to share. He is renowned here for being generous with his time, helpful, and also disarmingly open to comment about his own large output. He also has a range of knowledge going back many years that he makes available to us all, and an overview of it all that's been invaluable to the many that he's helped.

Guitarnoise is a site aimed at guitar players. This particular forum is for people who wish to get feedback about songwriting and to find collaborators - it's not really designed as a place to show off poetry. You may well still find some friends at a place like this, but you seem more interested in drawing attention to yourself than in anything resembling collaboration. That's a pity.

The transition from a teenage style to a more mature one is always a tough one to make, but a big requirement for success is developing the abilities to accept criticism and to be able to honestly appraise what you do and how you do it.

Your stuff is spot on for a school poetry mag, and elements of it can certainly be carried forward into all sorts of genres - from art house movies and more mature poetry publications through to Mills and Boon style romances, Sword and Sorcery style novels, and indeed to songs. There's a very big market, but all of these require the ability to skillfully balance the familiar with the fresh. Currently your writing seems firmly in the ‘teen angst' mould, and fair enough too. Where else would it be? Check out some of the back pages here. There have been a large number of other similar teen lyrics posted here over the years, typified by being all about ‘me, me,me' and how sensitive the writer is. The reader's role is mostly as some kind of acolyte, sympathiser, or applause provider ( professional writers understand that the reader/listener usually thinks it's about them, and how much satisfaction they can get from going along for the ride that's on offer).

Early poems and lyrics share many of the usual hallmarks - such as well used extremes “black, white, weak, strong, my pain, my struggle, my inner beauty, arrows that pierce, castles, dreams, broken wings, lonely paths” and so on. It's stiff with tragic heroines and heroes who are essentially victims - victims of fate, victims of tangled love, victims of circumstance, victims of a society that doesn't understand them, and so on. Nothing wrong with that of course, it's just that it's all been done a few zillion times, so it's not easy to be genuinely original. The genre is as easy to identify (or send up for that matter) as Country Music or Blues. If my purpose was to make fun of you or be destructive, it would be all too easy to do. But that's not my aim, nor Vic's.

You could get useful feedback and pointers from some of the people here, or you could stay - to use an appropriate cliche - up on your high horse, looking a little bit silly. Your call. Good luck with the next few years - how you handle them will make the difference between staying stuck in the ‘promising' box and maturing into becoming genuinely more professional. At least you did get some attention, even if it wasn't quite the sort you seem to be insisting on. But like Vic, I appear to be wasting the time I'm putting in, so I'll fade away now too..... :wink:

Chris

PS

Maybe this will cheer you up. It's a joke that I saw on another forum. I've cleaned it up a bit, as the original was rather ruder about us.

Q. How many amateur songwriters does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. Change!!! You must be kidding! I don't change ANYTHING!

So you're not alone. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just before I leave the subject alone, here's a little quote from someone who DOES make a living from music....

"My songwriting, like my playing, has evolved over the past (way too many) years - going from the stereotypical "all thirty-two verses of this song are essential and not a single word can be changed" to very minimalist lyrics. "

Any guesses as to who wrote that?

You can find the answer HERE

Oh, and thanks for the nice testimonial Chris - if I'm ever in trouble, I know who to call as a character witness! Yes, I do spend a lot of time here....I've learned so much and taken so much from GN these past few years, so I try and pass on what I've learned and put a little something back if I can. That's how the site works, isn't it? Isn't it? Isn't it........?

:D :D :D

Vic