An interesting little aside to the main discussion crept into one of the threads on the Sunday Song Writers Group forum yesterday that, to me, poses an interesting philosophical question about song writing.
One of the writers wrote a nice piece, but many of the readers found it was too obfuscated for them to comprehend the meaning. I never got around to reading the song itself, so I'm not taking sides, but I'm interested to know what people think about the following:
When you play me a song, who owns the song? I'm not talking about copyrights and royalties, I'm talking about who gets to decide what it means? Who gets to decide whether it is good? At the time of listening (or reading in our case), who owns the song?
When you play me a song, do I in some way own the song? Is it your responsibility to make it accessible to me?
Or, conversely, do you own the song, and hence it becomes my responsibility to access your song and plumb it for meaning?
In the SSG thread, the author's argument was, "It makes sense to me." If the author owns the song, then this is a perfectly fine argument. However, if the listener owns the song, then my response has to be "Why should I care whether it makes sense to you, it doesn't make sense to me, goodbye."
Depending on what you decide, this will have drastic consequences on your songwriting, no?
Any thoughts?
Ice cream is a dish best served cold.
it's up to the listener how he wants to listen to a song, and it's up to the player how he wants to play the song.
ownership is the wrong concept here. when two people are on a date, who owns attraction?
a lot of people write songs with the listener in mind. these people are often called sellouts. a lot of people write with their own point of view in mind. these people are often called poor.
i guess you have to keep in mind that you are communicating a part of yourself to someone who may or may not want to listen, and decide for yourself how you want to approach the situation.
other people may say that that is futile, since you are going to come through as yourself regardless.
i don't really know, though. i spend a lot more time singing & playing to myself than to other people. usually, when i'm around other people, i'm just doing my best to ride my adrenaline and thoughts without falling off.
Hey Slowplay,
My two cents are that what makes a good song is that both the player and the listener get to connect together. Whether the song is portrayed or comprended the same way is unimportant. One of my favorite performers is Keith Urban. He wrote a song called "You're not my God"
Could be about so many things. The song obviously is about drug addiction. But as I listener I could use the purpose of the song for my own interpretation. I could turn it around and think of booze, food, an actual person, deceiving thoughts, list could go on and on. And, maybe the words might develop my own thoughts and then in turn would I own the song? So, in my opinion nobody "owns" (excluding copywrites, etc.) a song just as long as somebody gets something out of it (which might not be the intent of the writer) is what's important to me. G. :)
Keith Urban - You're Not My God Lyrics
It's just a piece of paper, it says, "In God We Trust"
A little sure felt good
But a lot was not enough
And everybody loved me when I was on a roll
And I thought I had everything
When I held the gold
But you're not my god
And you're not my friend
You're not the one that I will walk with in the end
You're not the truth
You're a temporary shot
You ruin people's lives and you don't give a second thought
You're not my god
Little white lies on a mirror
Cut neatly in a roll
Medicine that kept me from lookin' in my soul
I thought you were the answer
To all of my despair
And you almost had me six feet down
But I'm still breathin' air
'Cause you're not my god
And you're not my friend
You're not the one that I will walk with in the end
You're not the truth
You're a temporary shot
You ruin people's lives and you don't give a second thought
You're not my god
From the cradle to the grave
Temptations all around
But no matter how good the fix
It's gonna take you down
Now some call it a weakness
Some call it a sin
But it's all the same behind each game
I see your evil grin
But you're not my god
And you're not my friend
You're not the one that I will walk with in the end
You're not the truth
You're a temporary shot
You ruin people's lives and you don't give a second thought
Whoa, you're not my god
And you're not my friend
You're not the one that I will walk with in the end
You're not the truth
You're a temporary shot
You ruin people's lives and you don't give a second thought
You're not my god
You're not my god
Oh oh oh you're not my god
You're not my god
Mmmmm not my god
Not my god
You're not, you're not, you're not my god
No you're not
It depends on who you are playing for.
But the person in your example is wrong. If it is being listened to by others and makes no sense to them then you have done a poor job in constructing a song that gets across your meaning.
A lot of young writers, sometimes a bit insecure and inexperienced fall into that trap.
From my article songwriting for beginners:
7. If you have to explain a line to me, you need to re-write it.
If I have to explain that line to you, I need to re-write it.
8. Do not confuse profound with vague.
This one ties in well with number 7.
This is one of the biggest errors I see and it manifests itself in a couple of ways.
First, even the lyricist doesn't know what they are writing about. Overly impressed by their own ability to use flowery imagery, the writer will get stuck for an ending or chorus and ask for help. Heck, if you don't know what you are writing about, how should anyone else know?
Second, the message is so lost in flowery writing that the natural progression of the song gets lost. The obvious symptom of this is overly long, formless writing usually followed by a request for help formatting the song into singable lyric.
No one needs to write in "Dick-and-Jane" style, but you don't want to sound like a dot com company earnings call either.
But the person in your example is wrong. If it is being listened to by others and makes no sense to them then you have done a poor job in constructing a song that gets across your meaning.
(If I understand what your saying?) In my example the person makes sense to himself and what he is saying is clear. What I was talking about is how a listener "could" interpret it or use it to benefit themself. I also agree that it depends who you are playing for. G. :)
Hi
interesting thread and a thought provoking one at that , I myself believe that if I am going to play to audience and sing say Willie Nelson songs that I have a duty to play them and sing them the way they were written . I hate going to watch bands who advertise they will be playing a certain song and then they just trash it , it's good to be original but be original with your original work not some-one elses property .
Remakes I hate them , just people who can not be original and can not find their nich in this world . Yes I do play and sing other peoples music but not in my own way I try to capture the essence of the song ,the lyrics ,the mood . It's all about entertainment and enjoyment for both parties .
Song writters own the words musicians play the tunes and singers can destroy them both .
Just my opinion
cheers
L.K :arrow:
Aghhhh
Not only am I a senior citizen
I'm now a bloody senior member
Are you people trying to tell me I'm old or what ?
over 700 posts ( I really do need to get out more )
OPINION:
If the listener likes it and understands it you both own it.
If the listener doesn't like it or doesn't understand it you still own it.
So, if you want a hit you have to write something you both own.
And, if you both own it you would still be the one making money off it.
NOTE: The above opinion has absolutely nothing to do with reality or intellectual property rights.
I can't see any other "ownership" than the person(s) who wrote the lyrics. They get to decide what the words mean. As a listener that only applies if the listener is searching for the true, original meaning of the song.
As a listener...as a human being it is your right to decide what it means to you, which again leads to several opinions on what a song means.
I like plenty of songs that I don't know what means. Good example? Hotel California. Some say it is about materialism, some say it's about drugs...
Thats whats so great about music, the freedom. So just make up your mind and have a good time with it :wink:
"I wish there was an over the counter test for my loneliness"
Who are you writing for?
Are you trying to share some inner thought, pain, issue, concern?
If so, you should try to make your message clear. Otherwise what's the point in sharing it?
If however, you are writing MTV video pop forget what I said.
I write songs for ME....they're about me, the way I feel, the way I felt, the way I'd like to feel...they're a sort of cathartic process, a form of self-analysis, a way of getting things off my chest....
Actually the main reason I write songs is I hate wasting a good line...sometimes you just get a line in your head, it won't go away, you just have to follow it up...
But I like to think I can write songs people can relate to, they can read the lyrics/listen to the song and think "hey, that's ME!!!"....job done! If I post a song here, or on the SSG, and it gets good feedback, it means someone else has been through/is going through the same emotion(S) I was feeling when I wrote the song....that's called communication....
But it doesn't matter if you do enjoy one of my songs and think "Hey! That's Me!!!"....it'll never be your song, it'll always be mine...I gave birth to it, nursed it into growth and brought it to maturity....It's my baby!!!!
:D :D :D
Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)
Word! :D
"I wish there was an over the counter test for my loneliness"
Hey Vanilla Ice, I wondered what happened to you :lol:
:lol:
"I wish there was an over the counter test for my loneliness"
"One always writes for someone. Rarely for several people. Never for everyone." Colette
Portamento - The ability to move from a wrong note to the right one without anyone noticing the original mistake.
Harmonics - The buzzing sound that string instruments make.
Impromptu - A carefully worked out composition.
So, um ... what about Elton John's "Your Song"?? Don't hurt yourselves :)
