Whose Song Is It?

So, um ... what about Elton John's "Your Song"?? Don't hurt yourselves :)

"My gift is my song and this one's for you"

Words: Elton John

Thought Bernie Taupin wrote the words and Elton wrote the music?

:D :D :D

Vic

Well my take on this subject is this. If I might borrow a little from the computer industry :idea: . I believe that the author owns the song in general terms, however when the song is sung, an instance of that song is created, each listener owns their own view (or perception if you like) of that instance.

In other words, the writer owns the song (the original message), the performer owns the instance (the delivery and flavour) of the message and the listener owns the interpretation of the received message

Of course like Chinese whispers the message can mutate each time it passes from one person to another.

pb

Thought Bernie Taupin wrote the words and Elton wrote the music?

:D :D :D

Vic

Should have read what I wrote - just copied from some site or other. :cry:

does anyone necessarily have to 'own' a song that is written? A song; lyrics or music; is a voice that speaks from behind reason. Why put labels to it, why give it rules, give it so much structure, when its purpose is break free from such confinement? :(

Like many questions of this nature, I don't believe there is an answer. Trying to find an 'equation' will only take away one more piece from the wonder of musical language and interpretation.

Slightly more on topic; songs can be written for many reasons, and serve many purposes. they can be pure emotion through language, tell a story, or have an underlying message that applies to all. but all songs have one thing in common; they are written from a place that some have found within themselves, and others have not.
because this place applies to all of us, in a sense, the song belongs to everyone. Everyone who hears the song, whether written for them, OR for the songwriter, becomes a part of it. They claim a piece of ownership through their interpretation, their connection, or their rejection.

So my belief is that, all 'obvious answers' aside, a song belongs to everybody. I think there are alot of people in this world who could do with finding a song. Why deny them the journey?
:)
Jacqui.

Jacqui said:

"So my belief is that, all 'obvious answers' aside, a song belongs to everybody. I think there are alot of people in this world who could do with finding a song. Why deny them the journey?"

Nice one.... you can always trust an Aussie to cut through the BS and give a straight answer!!!!

:D :D :D

Vic

If I'd be playing a song in front of others I would want to get the message over, so if anything goes wrong with 'how' I say what I want to say I would atleast consider any advice given. Although not everyone needs to get every song though and I might very well decide to keep the lyrics. Any comments on changing the message are pretty much ignored though.

When I listen to a song I don't care what the original message was I try to fit the song into something recognizable to me.

Thanks everyone, this has been very enlightening, and, like any enlightening conversation, I'm left with more questions than answers. :)

I think my new question to persue is: What is a useful metaphor which I can use to approach songwriting?

In computing, the predominant methaphor for some time had been writing, as in "I wrote a program", or "I wrote 10,000 lines of code." However, a shift has taken place toward looking at software as though it were engineering. The new paradigm has architectures and designs and specifications.... much more useful tools for developing solid software. Are we in need of a shift in our thinking as well?

Someone along the way in this thread pointed out that my basic assumption was wrong. They compared an instance of a song being performed to a date, not to ownership. Is this a more useful metaphor? Is is a conversation, a contract, a journey for two people, a maze, a lecture, a broadcast, a game of Battleship?

Anticipating some responses this post could inspire, let me clarify that I'm not asking you to adopt my metaphor for songwriting, or even agree with me that we need a metaphor. What I'm looking for is an appropriate metaphor for myself through which I can approach the art of writing songs.

Hi,

I see all writing as an extension of general conversation and communication. Songs just have the potential to be more powerful and punchy because of the musical element.

I don't see a song as much different from any other vocal communication – it can be deep or shallow, funny or sad, crass or cultured, self-centred or generous in spirit, tongue in cheek or serious, aggressive or gentle, friendly and accessible or dense and pretentious, or anything else that our usual conversations might be. It just has the enormous added power of music to make it more memorable and effective.

Mostly when I talk to people the sort of outcome that I aim for is for them to be either interested, amused, informed, feel that they've made some sort of connection, perhaps seen something in a new light, and so on. I'm not that bothered whether they think that I'm much of a poet, or how deep I am, and I'm certainly not that interested in boring on about what a hard time I'm having. Others have other agendas, and that's fine too. But I think that a songwriter needs to decide what they are trying to do - whether they do want to communicate something (which does mean considering your listener) or just have a bit of a rave about some internal personal feeling.

So that's my metaphor. Songs are simply communications or conversations. What you choose to communicate is up to you. You can seek to inform, entertain, provoke thought, amuse, or you can just unload some of your own mental fluff (the last being all too common among new songwriters it seems).

I've listened to some very enjoyable and well crafted songs here (including those by SlowPlay), but I've also waded through a lot of half-baked lyrics. Here's what all too many “songs” here communicated to me:

1. I can't actually play the guitar and I've never read any of the articles here on the craft of song-writing.

2. I don't know the difference between a singable lyric and a mediocre poem. Actually, I don't know how to write poems either, but I think you just string stuff together and muddy it up a bit…

3. I don't really want criticism, I want you to tell me I'm cool. And also deep, while you're at it.

4. I expect other people to be captivated by my thoughts. It hasn't yet occurred to me that if I don't leave room for the listener they won't come back….. :?

Sorry if this sounds harsh. But a lot of posters seem to have made no previous effort to either read any of the articles here, to think about how words and music work together, or to put any thought into how the craft of songwriting actually works. :cry:

People could at least read Nick's article before they post: :)

Songwriting For Beginners

It's got good advice in it!