FRIED: Ever had too many songs to learn at one time?

Racer Y, I know there are players out there doing session work, and even casuals without being able to read. They work in one specific style - like the country guys you saw, or blues groups here in Chicago. If the rough format of the harmony is the same for every tune, you're only worried about what key, how fast, and what sort of rhythm you're playing over.

The kind of casuals I mean are more the 'tuxedo gigs'. People pay quite well for music at society events. The problem with a band format for that sort of work is that people expect you to play the songs they want - after all, they're paying you big bucks to deliver. A gig along those lines might include

-a waltz
-a tango
- a bossa nova
- an early (50s) rock tune by Elvis or the like
- a polka
- a Sinatra tune
- a big band tune like 'Take the A Train'

You simply can't have a repertoire large enough to handle the requests that might be thrown at you. On a casual, I've got my fake books - some commercial ones, some binders I've made up of stuff that' been requested before - and I'm ready to do any one of about 700 different tunes that might come up. Sometimes the leader will hand out charts for another 5 or 6 tunes that are special to the host that don't get requested much.

If you play for four hours, you might do 45-50 tunes. I probably 'know' (as in can play without the music) betwen 5 and 20 of them. In all honesty, the demands on guitarists for this type of work are less than those of the other musicians... the brass and keyboards, in particular, need monster reading abilities. I've seen sax players handed things in cut time that include septuplet figures, and they whip them out like it was nothing. I read pretty darn well, but I can't come close to what those guys do.

For the most part, I just have to comp the chords. I might do 1-2 instrumental solos, especially if it's something the leader considers a 'rock' tune - what's considered rock by the leader might be "Do You Know the Way to San Jose" - and maybe the leader will ask me to do something like a solo intro to one or two tunes - a very specific thing, like "play from measures 5-8 as the intro, then Doc will hit the sax on 4, and the rest of us on the downbeat...."

So I guess when I do those gigs, I might spend 5% of the time actually sight reading. There usually aren't full-blown arrangments, just head charts. However, if I couldn't read, I wouldn't get any of that work - those 10 minutes of reading are pretty important ones to the group.

Yea, lately I've been a pretty messed up individual. Last night we stuck mostly to songs we learned recently and polished up a few. Frank said he wanted to try BTO's Takin' Care of Business as the last song and I pretty much told him I did't want to work on it because I'm working it out on my own and I'd bring it in (with words, chords, and notes). Bill left us all a copy of it with just 3 chords and the words with no notation on changes, fills, or anything. I don't like that. I think if you're gonna start something you should have done some research first to get going in the right direction. Either it's because I'm much slower than the guys, too organized, or just not a real musician. Likely all 3. I like to have more detail than to just wing things.
One of the rules for learning a new song was that someone had to be prepared to lead the new song, and he had to bring accurate chord charts. No chart, no song.

-Laz

Anyway, I suggested we do a song we hadn't done in months and we rocked it. Better to do that and walk out happy than to muddle through a song nobody has down.

Tom, most of the songs we do are pretty naked version compared to the original cd. We don't have the lead guitarist learning the licks (at least I don't hear it as being near exact) but being in the ballpark with a few scales. The songs pass based on the vocals and foundation. I'd like to learn songs more in-depth but those guys don't want to get that deep so I just roll with it.

Last night Frank and I talked about cutting down the song list to maybe 40 for the two parties in December. I suggested we should narrow down the set list next week to what we'll actually be playing and then practice those songs for the following few weeks. He agreed to making the set list (with our participation) next week but not to practicing only those songs. Oh well. We're moving in the right direction

Dennis

Yeah, you've got too much on your plate. This is why I never play in more than one band although I've had opportunities to play in several at once. One is enough for me. A band is a lot of work.

I introduced most of the new songs in my last band and do so now in my new band (the power of being the singer 8) ). I am open to most any song provided we can play and sing it well. For any new song I bring in a copy of the music and lyrics for everyone even if the other guys don't sing. I even explain what I think the song is about. For example, we have been working on a cover of "Today" by the Smashing Pumpkins. I saw Billy Corgan on TV. He explained how he came to write this song. He was very depressed for years. He had contemplated suicide many times.
It finally came to a crisis point. He told himself that he either had to kill himself and get it over with, or decide that day to plow straight ahead through this depression and live a productive life. He just could not bear to live in the pits any longer. Well, he decided to live. And to live a happy life regardless of the inner pain he felt. And that is why he wrote the song. And now you know why he sings, "today is the greatest day I have ever known". Because the day he decided to rid himself of this deep depression was the greatest day of his life.

You're probably thinking Wes has lost it. No. I find when people understand the meaning of a song they remember the lyrics easily, because they understand the meaning and story. And this also enables them to understand the feel of the song, how it should be played and communicated. And I really believe it works. It even seems to make everyone like the song better. It is not boring, even if you've played it many times, because now it has meaning.

Knowing the lyrics means everyone is on the same page. Players can get lost on a long verse and miss a change or change early. But when they know the song they hit the changes.

Sometimes no matter how much everyone loves a song, the band can't seem to play it well. No matter what you try it just sounds lifeless and flat. Songs like this should be dropped.

When you play gigs, pay attention to the reaction songs get. There have been songs I thought we performed great, but the crowd just stares. If this happens at 4 or 5 gigs something is wrong. Drop this song. On the other hand, there have been songs I did not think our band performed well at all, yet the crowd goes crazy every gig. I don't get it, but that song is a keeper.

Dennis, if I was you I would make the band the priority. Bring the lyrics and music to practice for everyone. You are very disciplined. You will be a big help to the band. The guys are going to work on songs where they have the music before they work on something someone chicken-scratched on a piece of paper. By doing this extra work you will have a big influence on the direction of the band. Works every time.

I wouldn't worry too much about the lead fills being exact. Unless you're doing a tribute thing, get the main ones down and people will remember the tune, and maybe even 'your' version of it.

Wes, you have not lost it. That's interesting. I know I remember song lyrics more when I type them because I don't sing. But knowing the story behind a song would be great. I know I'd be thinking of the story while playing and as the lyrics are sung.

From day one, I know one of the reasons the guys asked me to be in the band is for the simple fact that I was almost always there. I watched their practices on Thursday nights and just took in the music and enjoyed it. Often times one of the 4 guys couldn't make practice a particular night (for whatever reason) but I'd always be there. When their lead guitarist got divorced and moved they brought the former lead guitarist in while recording a cd. He flaked out and sold all his guitars and doesn't play anymore.

They moved practices up to Carpentersville (32 miles from me and slightly more for the rest of the guys). I still went up there to check out the music. One night the drummer asked me to bring my guitar. The first couple of weeks were rough and I was laughed at often because I didn't know how to play in a band and I was not very good. But on the 4th practice they asked me to join.

Another reason is I'm organized. They're musician's and they seriously disorganized and it killed me. That's why I could not take having someone tell me the chords, I scribble them on a paper and play the song. Even though I don't sing, I want to have the lyrics, chords, and other notes (like what guitar sound/patch to use). Now I have my binder with songs in plastic sheets and the guys do, too. I figured if I'm typing the up for myself I can just as easily print out some extra copies for the guys. It's still funny the bassist often doesn't use the sheet or loses them so he asks me to move my music stand closer to his so he can see the chords and sing.

These guys forget to bring guitar cables, picks, extra sets of strings, etcetera. I have a “just-in-case” package in my RokSak (giant male purse for guitar processor, lyrics, cables and other stuff).

Finally, I think another think they like (and hate at times) is that I often think about theory. Those guys are street players and learned that way. Many times I'm able to use theory to help on some things. Other times, they throw theory in the trash and play what “sounds good” so it works. I think of us as a strange musical family. If we were all the same it would be boring..

All in all, my lack of talent is bolstered by my other attributes so they keep me around. I still remember when I went on vacation to Florida. Frank kept on joking with me that I'd be replaced if I didn't practice down there and get the songs tighter for the Lombard gig. I was kinda worried because they did get another guitarist to play with them while I was gone and play at the gig.

Tom, that's cool that you feel that way. I'm quite amazed that we get away with some songs because they key is changed. Some songs just sound really good in the original key. Yet many songs are transposed and they seem to work when we played out the last two times. Pretty amazing. Even without the “right” lead guitar stuff.

Dennis

When it comes to music, I look to my younger brother. He was a HUGE record collector when we were kids. And when I say huge I mean it. My brother's bedroom was filled with stacks of albums 3-4 feet high. He had thousands of albums. He seemed to play music every waking moment. And I could not tell you how many times he would play a record of some group I had never heard of, and tell me these guys are gonna be big or a big influence. And I'm telling ya, he was always right. So I learned quickly he knew what he was talking about.

Anyway, my brother has always taken a big interest in my music and the bands I have been in. He sent me an e-mail yesterday asking me to send him some recordings of my new band. And I know what he's gonna do. He's gonna critique us. And I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna listen to everything he says.

One thing my brother has always gotten on to me for was playing in cover bands. He hates cover bands. I have explained to him that I am way past being a rock star and that I enjoy playing local clubs. And this type of gig the clubs want cover songs. They want you to come in and play good songs the crowd knows and likes so the people will stay all night and drink themselves into total oblivion. He understands this, but still hates covers. So he told me, "If you HAVE to play covers, then play them YOUR OWN WAY". Now I know he's right. He's always right about music. ALWAYS.

So, since that day many years ago I have always tried to put my own mark on covers. Now sometimes you have to play a riff exact. If you are playing "Whole Lotta Love", you've gotta play that riff. Holy Cow, that IS the song. BUT, you do not have to sing it exactly like Robert Plant. I couldn't if I tried, that guy is way too high for my voice. So, I might sing it quite differently than RP. Now, I will listen to my own vocals. I'm a pretty good judge myself. I can tell if it sounds good or not. And I will work on it until I like and enjoy it myself. But also, take the long psychedelic solo. There is no way to copy that. A lot of that stuff was done in the studio. Much of it was played with a bow. If you try to copy something like that you are just gonna come up short. Even if you do pull it off note-for-note, people will just think of you as a good copycat. You will not get any notice or respect for having your own style. And that is everything. This is what my brother was trying to tell me. You MUST have your own style.

And Dennis, he is right. Bands that are original get noticed. Bands that copy get ridiculed.

Look at what good bands do. Do you remember when Guns & Roses covered Paul McCartney's "Live and Let Die"? I thought it was awesome, even better than the original. Now, you can hear the riffs that make you recognize that song. But you can also tell it was Guns & Roses. They had their own original sound and you could hear that as well.

And this works for small-time bands like yours and mine as well. I have found people really enjoy when you put your own band's stamp on a song. I have had people come up and compliment us for this. So again, my brother was right.

And Dennis, yeah these guys like you for your professionalism and discipline. That is a rare commodity in small-time bands. I would rather have someone who is steady and works hard even if they are not the greatest player, over some Prima Donna who can play fantastically but shows up to practice an hour late. I was in a band with a drummer like that once. He would show up to gigs 5 minutes before we were scheduled to go on. The whole band would have to rush his gear in and set it up quick. And I cannot tell you the apprehension I felt before he showed. I have had owners ask where the drummer is and promised he would show on time. He always did, but boy did he put a scare into us many times. So your discipline and organization is the best thing for your band. Quite frankly, they really sound like they need you badly.

But remember, it has to be fun. Never get too serious about it. That is being extreme and will cause real problems.

Sorry for the novel. Have a Happy Thanksgiving! 8)

Wes

Novel? I like novels but only if they are non-fiction. I like what you said. Sounds like your brother is something special. Does he play any instruments? If not, he should with ears like that.

Yea, I'm getting more relaxed now thinking about what y'all have said. I'm happy in knowing we're just some guys getting together for some fun and hopefully decent music. Oddly, I think that most players have a certain “sound.” It's not something I can describe but I notice it. My best friend has a particular sound that makes me instantly realize it's him playing guitar. I recently listened to a cd the band (before I joined) recorded. Frank and I were listening and I said “That sounds like Dan (former guitarist)” and he disagreed. It sounded so much like him. The drummer came later and verified it was Dan. He has a unique sound. I guess we all have it. Maybe it's the way we learned and added our own style.

Ah, turkey in a few hours. I'm so looking forward to a meal that's not fast food, out of a can, or needs to be microwaved. A real meal today! :D

From a non-participant, passive reader angle, this thread has been REALLY interesting. As usual Wes has given us his thoughts in a clear and concise way (sure, there's a lot of words - but there was a lot to say!), as have other partipants.

I for one would just like to say thanks to everyone who bothers to take the time and effort on this site to get threads like this going, its great to read experienced guys tales of the do's and don'ts. Its not necessarily that one day i will put any of this into practice (in fact its a pretty good bet i won't given my family commitments) but it makes for a really interesting read. And a great start to my "working" day over the first coffee of the morning here in the UK.

Really fascininating, thanks guys!!!

Matt

Hi.
Wes, what you wrote about Cover band vs original...well
it kinda depends on where you're at, doesn't it? I mean location.
I been out of "the scene" for years now, butI know certain things won't change.
I live in Houston. here, if you have an original song - hide it. the crowd only wants to hear covers. If you play an original, they'll usually
go off on you...Go to Austin and it's the other way around.
we did a club gig once and threw in two of our originals. the owner didn't want us playing the originals, not because they sucked, but because
they wasn't KNOWN.

Personally, I avoid Austin like the plague.

I don't know about anywhere else... Well Nuevo Laredo down in Mexico
Really had a cool metal thing going on a few years back.
Almost everthing they did was original in Spanish, but it rocked hard.
but I just seen a concert there more like a battle of the bands
All the music radio stations were Traditional and top 40 though.

Uhhh... how far off topic is this getting? :D

I don't know much about much as far as being a REAL MUSICIAN goes, but it seems every band needs a Paul McCartney or a Johnny Ramone...just two cents worth. Thanks.