Lookin4 advice from veterans- Soloing

So, what I take away from Cnev's and Notes' responses is:

Just Do It!

Just keep doing it every day and it will get better. Once you know the scales and the techniques, the rest is just playing. There's nothing else to learn, per se. It'd just a matter of practice.

Well I don't think there's really any other way. Sure you can read books and knowing some scales will help at the beginning ( and like Dylan I think one position is enough to start no sense confusing yourself with all the other positions) but you can read books for the rest of your life and you'll still never be able to solo.

Get one minor pent scale position down grab yourself a bunch of blues CD jam tracks which you can get free off the internet and just start playing.

While you are doing that you can also be learning solos note for note from some of your favorite songs/bands. The one thing that I think is good about that is that you will be forced to learn techniques you may not otherwise come across. The other benefit is that you won't look for the "easy" or different way to play the solo because you can't.

There's nothing else to learn, per se. It'd just a matter of practice.
no, you can always learn more. you can learn different styles, how different people solo. a jimi hendrix solo sounds different than a van halen solo sounds different than a miles davis solo, etc. understanding why different people play the way they do, their roots and influences, is fascinating.

I've had tons of students over the years with exactly the same dilemma - how do you go from scale to solo? And there's one exercise I've found helps most of them.

Pick a random note from your scale. Then pick another one. Then pick a third.

Next, put on a backing track and see what you can create using ONLY those three notes.

This is going to force you to do two things: first, you'll need to explore the interval relationships between the tones you've chosen. Going from note 1-2 will feel different than going from 1-3, 2-3, 3-1, etc. That gets you into actually thinking about what you're doing with each note, and takes you out of the "poke and pray" method of soloing. Second, it's going to force you to pay attention to the rhythm - which is probably the most overlooked part of great solos. You can do A LOT with just three notes (with students I'll demonstrate using the three notes they've picked, just to give them some ideas).

Play with those three notes for a while, then pick three new notes. When you're confident you can do something interesting with any three notes, use four notes. Get four down, and then try going back to the full scale fingering... it'll feel like the first time you opened that giant box of Crayolas :)

great advice, Tom. I was just about to suggest almost the same thing -- but starting with two notes and later moving up to three and four. it really gets a person thinking about the rhythmic element.

Yes, thanks Tom. You know, David made the very same point in one of his recent "Scales to Solos" lessons. In there he actually demonstrated a solo using only two notes, and then four. You, know after hearing that it really amazed me how much you can really do with only a few notes!

I think I'll take you up on that exercise.

I can't take credit for the idea - back in the 70s I studied improvisation with bassist Paul Zibits, and at the first lesson he sat down at the piano and comped chord changes for me to solo over. I had to do five choruses, and could use any note I wanted, as long as that note was an F :)

It definitely got me focused on using rhythm, but I found using just one or two notes (after the first exercise I got to add Bb) was melodically really boring; with one note you don't really have intervals to play with, and with two notes you've only got two, really - the interval between the two and its inversion. But with three notes you've got six intervals (1-2, 1-3, 2-3, plus inversions) and you can actually do a lot. As much as I like teaching by breaking things down into simple elements, I've found you can make it too simple... then students don't get as much out of it, because they can't quickly grasp how it integrates into better things.

So I ended up with three as a compromise of sorts, and it's worked out pretty well.

Yes, three does sound like a good compromise. Six intervals for the beginning soloist is plenty to digest at one time. BTW, since I am an angineer and am always fascinated with numbers, I extrapolated the idea to a full pentatonic scale. If I figured it correctly, with five notes you have 20 (actually 25 if you include unisons- 1,1 for instance) possible intervals. Now that is a lot to get a grip onall at one time, so I am not surprised now how we beginning soloists can find it so dauntic to start out- even sticking with just one pentatonic scale pattern to start.

For Vibrato bends and tremelo and stuff, feel free to use but don't overdo them.

For Vibrato bends and tremelo and stuff, feel free to use but don't overdo them.

Don't worry, getting too fancy is definitely not my problem!

I am a big believer in "target notes", this is when you pick specific notes to play over specific chords in your progression. I don't like to play notes nilly willy, I like the solo to lead the listener's ear. This is a method that will help you pull off a good solo everytime, but it is not something you want to do every solo. You don't want to sound like you are using a method. So, think of it as a tool. Once you get familiar with these target notes, you will remember them when you are improvising.

So here is a super simple (on purpose) solo over a 12 bar Blues progression in A.

A/A/A/A/D/D/A/A/E/D/A/E

Play the specific riff over each specific chord. All the notes are from the A Minor Pentatonic scale 1st position.


A Riff (A minor pentatonic scale)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
e--------------------------
b-----8-----5--------------
g--------------------------
d-/7-----------------------
a--------------------------
e--------------------------
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

OK, each note here applies to the chord it is played over. In the A riff you have A (root), G (flatted 7th "Blue" note), and E (5th). On the D riff you have D (root), A (5th), and C (flatted 7th "Blue" note). On the E riff you have E (root) and G (flatted 3rd, another "Blue" note).

When you play a scale or scales over a chord, learn each note in the scale and how it relates to the chord being played over. While you can play any note from the scale over the chord, some notes work better than others. It is often good to start a phrase with the root note of the chord. This will lead the listener's ear, they will actually hear the chord progression even if no rhythm instrument is playing. But don't get in habits, don't always start or end every phrase on the root note.

The flatted 3rd and 7th are good notes, they are slightly melancholy or "blue". However, you can use the major 3rd if you want, that will give a happier feel.

The 5th is always a good note as well.

Now here is a solo I played, and I admit, I relied pretty heavily on target notes for this. But listen how the solo leads your ear through the progression. There are actually two solos, and I used this method for both.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=853376&content=songinfo&songID=6724573

So, as I wrote, you don't want to use a method for every solo. But it is good to learn the relationship of each note in a scale to the chord being played over. Experiment with each note in the scale, they are all good, and each has it's own feel. After you practice like this a long time you will come to know these intervals and how they sound.

Thanks, Wes. I think I will try your little exercise out. You are right; I need to have a better feel for what notes go better with what chords. I understand about not wanting to sound like you are following a formula, but at first, you got to play solos to the formula to get them down, I would think, then once they are in your toolbox you should be able to use them as you see fit.

Yeah what everyone said !

Right on guys .

My take is learn the melody , find the same melody all over the fretboard , find it on every string that allows it , once that is done :

Where ever you land on what ever string it is whether it's up and down the neck or across it , find the melody first .

When you have a good understanding of the potential areas to play the melody consider this .

What ever chord it is you use , could be a bar or open chord or a form of an open chord somewhere on the fretboard . When singing the song to yourself pick the melody with one note and as you do this look for the chord that a specific word in the song changes the " feel " , that's a chord change from the previous chord , from that you either work into the next chord from a solo one note ( or two ) attack , take notice what string the note is on for the melody in the chord you just left as you played the melody from the chord you left to the next chord change by walking to it note for melodic note .

Remember while soloing a lead by yourself or on a song in a band that you do not always use a 6 stringed chord voicing at all . Lead electric guitar the likes of Clapton and the other guitar Gods before him and after use 3 string voicings for a reason . And that is the " SPEED " of your hand & fingers being the critical issue during and between those changes .

#1 : You can make these triads all over the neck and inside them is the melody/lead note , from this note you leave the chord shape of the triad to play the note for the lead/melody into the next triad chord , you can also play two note power chords , the rule is the same .

From time to time you will see and hear opportunities to play a full chords and when that happens it's totally cool , remembering that this is where a crescendo is waiting usually to explode , if your playing full chords all the time you leave yourself little in the form of dynamics in your playing expression for those crescendos .

Example :

On a I-IV-Vb song ( you all know this pattern for the Blues take the Vb and make it a V and it's Rock-N=Roll ) try to play the chords on the first 3 strings , choose any , lets start with pattern for " A " ( A-D-E(b) )now for the example .

You know where the open " D " is and if you play that same " D " two frets up ( whole step ) you have a " E " the ( Vb or V ) fifth of the scale of " A " .

Now the " A" chord play it ( the I chord of the pattern ) on the # 2-3-and 4 stings only . Find the first note of the songs melody there , and from it " A " , connect the melody notes to the IV chord on the # 1st & 2nd strings , slide up from the IV chord to the V chord melodically , it's that simple .Take this and apply it to the whole fretboard .

The " secret " is to keep the melody strongly defined , from it you see where the "feel " goes and hit those " feel " changes as you either head for the " feel " of the songs chords of head away from them .

That written consider songs with 22 to 24 chord changes like " Somewhere Over The Rainbow " , the rules the same . Many times you won't even play the chord itself when that " feel ' change occurs , you will find out that one note is the right
" feel " change sometimes , in many case a two note does the job .

How ? - - I tought U'd neva axe :

When moving from one note to another as you sing and or play your guitar consider your voice is the second note of the power chord when you playing a single note heh heh and when with a duet , trio , or combo band , each instrument that's playing ( piano/keys , second rhythm guitar , bass guitar or sax ) usually plays the first note of the chord so you don't have to play it , it's not essential then at that moment , what is important is the chord's " feel " ( change in sound ) as in a minor from a major chord's " feel ' ( sound ) , I hope this nails it down for you along with all the other sage advise shared by all here , this group is really set up with good attitudes .

Peace blood brothers :

Hurricane Ramon

I am a big believer in "target notes", this is when you pick specific notes to play over specific chords in your progression. I don't like to play notes nilly willy, I like the solo to lead the listener's ear. This is a method that will help you pull off a good solo everytime, but it is not something you want to do every solo. You don't want to sound like you are using a method. So, think of it as a tool. Once you get familiar with these target notes, you will remember them when you are improvising.

So here is a super simple (on purpose) solo over a 12 bar Blues progression in A.

A/A/A/A/D/D/A/A/E/D/A/E

Play the specific riff over each specific chord. All the notes are from the A Minor Pentatonic scale 1st position.
[

Hello Wes :

Wow man we are on the same wave length , I had been searching like made when it hit me , I was asking the same question myself once and thought -

"It's got to be here on the fretboard somewhere ! " as I watched some really talented guitar players work out playing fluid lead lines into chords and out again with out effort and saw the I-Vb-IV of Mexican Ranchera guitar playing relate directly to The Blues I-IV-Vb pattern unfold as they played .

What I wrote and you defined in your great post with that tab , Wow , this is cool , a " kindred spirit :mrgreen: " here :)

I was thinking just with my written statement it would fly over some heads :roll: here . You made sure that did not occur :D .

Easy man :

Hurricane Ramon

Thanks Hurricane :D

Is that you in your Avatar? You look like a REAL Bluesman. 8)

Here is B B King, you can hear him hitting target notes, they are the "pretty" notes. You could hear the progression even if nobody else was playing with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ny5ajCn0xw