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Tone Caps

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(@duffmaster)
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When I ordered the parts to rewire my guitar I got .047 sqrage orange tone caps, to replace the ceramic caps that came with the rewire. The problem is the ones that came with the rewire are .022 . Is this going to cause a problem or can i use the new bigger tone caps without a problem?

Left are the ones i ordered, right are the ones from the rewire kit.

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(@total-13)
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im not an electrition but i'm pretty sure it will affect your town quite a lot as there seems to be a pretty big difference...

you can buy .22 ones from loads of places online and they are cheap.

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(@slejhamer)
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Those .047s will work, but depending on your pickups and pots the tone might get muddy quickly. Try 'em and see.

I've got a couple spare .022 Sprague orange drops if you need 'em. Maybe paypal me a couple bucks and I'll shoot 'em out to you. PM me if interested.

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(@greybeard)
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How about giving us a close-up of the writing on the 2 different caps? I'm no electrician, but I suspect that one is in the pico-farad range and the other either nano- or micro-farad, from the size of them.

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(@artlutherie)
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Not to mention where will you put them in the cavity they look huge.

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(@duffmaster)
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Topic starter  

This thing isn't made to look good Art :)

On the .022 that came with the rewire is an underline 223

On the sprague there is a circled 2, followed by 715P200V then underneth that is 473J 0521

Can anyone tell me why the sprague's are better than ceramic while I'm at it? Are they less restrictive?

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(@greybeard)
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As far as I can make out the rewire cap is a .022 micro-farad. The sprague is a .047 micro-farad. I suspect the reason for the size is that it appears to be rated at 200V.

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(@slejhamer)
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Can anyone tell me why the sprague's are better than ceramic while I'm at it? Are they less restrictive?

The spragues are the poly film type.

I found this on an amp maker's website:

Q: Why do you recommend polypropylene film/foil capacitors?

A: Because they are the best, in terms of temperature stability, and, subjectively, tone. The interior of a guitar amplifier chassis tends to get very hot, particularly in a combo ... A 5% or 10% drift in value can produce a very noticeable shift in tone, depending upon how the capacitor is used in the circuit, and all caps will drift in the same direction, which is determined by the characteristics of the dielectric material, so the effect is multiplied. Also, polypropylene capacitors are far better in terms of dissipation factor and dielectric absorption, which some people say makes them sound better. I use them because they have the best characteristics, even though they cost quite a bit more ...

Ceramic capacitors should be avoided, as they are usually horribly microphonic, have very high odd-order harmonic distortion (the "bad, or harsh-sounding" kind), typically mostly 3rd and 5th and 7th harmonics, and have poor temperature stability.

Now, keep in mind that's for an amp. Would you be able to tell the difference in a guitar, where voltage is low and the interior doesn't get hot? I keep reading "don't use ceramic" and no one explains why, except for the guy at Aiken Amps (quoted above), and that's a different application.

EDIT: I just found this from Fender, where they are using ceramic caps in the Hwy One Tele:
The latest version of the Highway One Texas Telecaster features some additional circuitry, namely the ‘Greasebucket' tone circuit, that you can also find in the new Custom Shop Stratocaster Pro model, among others. This replaces the Tele-standard wiring of a single polyester capacitor for the tone circuit, with two ceramic disk capacitors (.100uf and .02uf) with a 1/4-watt metal film resistor. The effect is that when rolled down, the tone pot reduces the high frequencies, but does not add bass.

So much for the conventional wisdom of not using ceramic in a tone circuit! :?

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(@doug_c)
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Short answers:
1) Metallized-film caps are generally considered preferable to ceramic for tone caps. (As Mitch said, may be just "CW.")
2) Higher capacitance will result in a "darker" tone. The 0.047 µF (microfarad) one will sound different from a 0.015 µF, 0.022 µF, or 0.033 µF cap. You could try different values to see which you like best.
3) 200 volts is way "beefier" than you need for a tone cap, but won't cause any adverse effects. (Except maybe size and/or cost.)


   
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(@duffmaster)
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Topic starter  

Thanks for all the help, I'll install these guys, and if I don't like them ill order the .022 version.

Now Jump over to my tremlo post!!!!

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I mean really...
It's almost always lyrics...
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or garbage about me...
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(@manitou)
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Posts: 121
 

If a big cap can cut down and make it"darker" maybe I should route a special cavity for a mnster cap for the guitar im making and see what happens haha... And the things being microphonic, maybe. But even then, if you just foil line your cavities like you should anyway I dont see any problems...

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