Musical preamp tubes

Here is what I was looking for:

http://kcanostubes.com/content/newsletter_details.asp?ArticleID=5

And now it's off to the Batcave, and remember, it's a good thing that we are all different.

remember, it's a good thing that we are all different.
I'm not.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079470/quotes
Brian: Please, please, please listen! I've got one or two things to say.
The Crowd: Tell us! Tell us both of them!
Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!
The Crowd: Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
The Crowd: Yes, we ARE all different!
Man in crowd: I'm not...
The Crowd: Sch!

Scr@tchy, I was being jerky last night, and I apologize for that. I've explained my basic philosophy about tubes and "tone" already. I usually just stay out of discussions about this stuff, because I do think there's been way too much "snake oil" spread around. I'm not denying that there are differences, but they're neither as cut and dried nor as important relative to other things in the sound chain as they're often made out to be. And the simplest way to find out what effect moving your tubes of the same types around among the positions in your amp is to try for yourself, like I said for the first time. I'm sorry for starting a fuss.

Hey thanks for that last. And you can be sure that I am just as playful with the other factors of my chain. This is my first time really needing to get inside of a tube amp and learn about the innards. I do build pedals and other electronic pieces, and I was hoping by next summer to have built a 40 watt quasi bassman combo. My first tube amp was a Marshall JCM 900 2x12 combo and I went through an entire temultous year of touring, music writing, promoting, networking etc. and that amp just never needed anything other than for me to play it, except for the giant difference in character I enjoyed from changing one of the 12ax7's to a 12at7... which really opened up the tone and made it more sparkley and not so stuffy. This amp obviously has alot more to offer sonically but it needs some tender care because of it's age and history. I changed the filter caps, power cable, and generally touched up the bad joints. I don't really know what is next inside the chassis for replacement as it seems to be operating correctly, so playing with the preamp tubes to see what happens was my next thing. I've had good success doing this with a 70's champ that I use for recording here and there, at one point I was using different tubes for different songs... like you are saying changing one thing impacts everything else and that gives me alot to work with just by changing a tube out. But this amp has 7 preamp tubes and it really helps me to know which ones do what before I tinker.

Then of course there are the stock speakers. I would like to switch out just one of them to mellow out the highs and tighten the bass up, and get a sort of composite going by keeping the best of the two originals... it is a little bright at the moment with a unfocused low end.

Scr@tchy, I think the move from the old Ampage board on the firebottle.com server disrupted the group somewhat, but the best bunch of real hands-on techs I know of who can give you real world answers based on experience are to be found over at the Music Electronics Forum, http://music-electronics-forum.com/

However, it got really slow after the Ampage went down and everybody was supposed to move to the new server, I pretty much quit going over there myself, haven't been in months, and when I tried to check it just now I couldn't get it to load. Don't know if it's gone too or if there's another place the old hands have gathered. The old regular Ampage guys knew so much more real world empirical stuff than I did. I learned a lot from listening to them. They could generally tell you exactly what would happen if you increased or decreased a particular cathode bypass capacitor or such in a given amp because they'd tried it, not because they were theorizing. It was a sad day when firebottle.com went down.

I'll keep trying the MEF. Might find some dope on the situation off the forums linked to the AX-84 Project.

Another good link is,

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/index.php

BTW, Welcome, sounds like you are in the right track!

Another good link is,

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/index.php

BTW, Welcome, sounds like you are in the right track!

Yeah, that's a great board for reading. I found out a lot about the vintage Traynor amps by reading that board. Getting posting privileges though doesn't seem to be possible. I tried to sign up but I never got the authentication from the admin (all new accounts need to be approved by an admin) - I even tried sending them an email directly and no go. If you do get signed up please let me know what you did.

I tried to sign up but I never got the authentication from the admin (all new accounts need to be approved by an admin) - I even tried sending them an email directly and no go. If you do get signed up please let me know what you did.
There are a lot of boards who are currently getting overwhelmed by spammers (and their automated minions) signing up by the hundreds in an attempt to spread their crap.

In addition to their mere existence being annoying, they also manage to hide legitimate users attempts to sign up. :evil:

Remember kids: don't ever buy anything from a spammer, it just encourages them.

I had no trouble registering there, I'm "racetruckdave". Pretty straightforward. Maybe you did it when they were busy?

I don't post a lot, but I do read a lot and have learned a lot there, everything from basics to fine tuning, it's also the only site that does cover Traynor amps, in great detail. That alone was worth the price of admission.

The site is a lot like here, friendly, helpful people who don't have a chip on their shoulder and are willing to help newbys with a lot of patience.

Sites like here and Plexipalace are getting hard to find, so I apprieciate it when I find them!

You do have to do the wierd code copying in the registration process, but this is meant to keep out the automated registating machine out, maybe thats where your problem is. Or your E-mail address, they might not recognize E-mail accounts that end in @yahoo.com or @msn.com? My E-mail is handled by my ISP i.e. @verizon.net. Some places it makes a difference, I guess to prevent spammers or trolls? I don't know, I'm barely computer literate as it is...... :oops:

Some boards have blocked out whole domains that were particularly bad sources of spam. Hotmail got a really bad reputation like that.

Or your E-mail address, they might not recognize E-mail accounts that end in @yahoo.com or @msn.com? My E-mail is handled by my ISP i.e. @verizon.net. Some places it makes a difference, I guess to prevent spammers or trolls? I don't know, I'm barely computer literate as it is...... :oops:

Yeah, that might be it. I used my Yahoo mail account to try and sign up. It's my general all around account signup mail address and nobody has ever had a problem about me signing up with it before so I hadn't thought about that. Maybe that's it. I'll try one of the throw away addresses I've set up with my ISP and see where that gets me.

Interesting post.

I agree with Ricochet and Scratchy. I have swapped tubes in my amps a few times and I can hear a difference. At the same time, I don't think you can really know what you are going to get until you plug new tubes in and hear the result.

I replaced the Groove Tubes in my HRD with JJs and liked the results for the most part. The bass was tighter and not as boomy. The highs were no longer harsh and brittle. I liked this a lot. But the amp has an overall darker tone which I don't like as much as the original tone.

I replaced the old tubes in my Marshall DSL401 (various) with JJs and really loved the difference. Much more headroom and the amp had a much sweeter tone. These tubes sound awesome in this amp.

I tried some JJs in my Epiphone Valve Jr head and didn't like the tone at all. Just took the life out of the amp, so I put the original back in.

It's not that I'm such a fan of JJs, I buy them because the service and price are great from Eurotubes.

It's just hit and miss, try a tube and see what it sounds like. You get variations with every tube really.

I have found swapping speakers a more reliable way to capture a tone than tubes. I took the Eminence 125 out of my HRD and put in a Celestion G12T-75. It took the twang out of the amp and gave it more of a Rock feel and tone. Very happy with the swap. My EVJ head I play into either a 1 X 12 closedback that I installed the Eminence speaker in, or an Avatar 2 X 12 with Celestion Vintage 30s. The V30s sound great with my HRD but not as good with the Epi. I actually prefer the Eminence speaker with the Epi. Brighter.

So, even swapping speakers is a hit or miss thing. A particular speaker may sound great with one amp but not another.

For me, swapping speakers is kinda fun (and a little expensive). I enjoy pulling an old speaker out and trying a new one. And I have come up with some pretty good combinations of speaker/amp that give me great tone. Of course, tone is a personal taste.

I dunno, I can hear differences from tube to tube, but like Ricochet I don't go overboard about it. I can usually pull good tone out of my amp with an EQ pedal. A person can drive themselves crazy chasing that elusive "perfect" tone.