Again with the Talent

well have to agree with grey beard on this. Being a great player doesn't really mean much when it comes to teaching. As long as the teacher knows alittle more than the student.

Look at sports very few "superstars" ever make it as great coaches, yet there are many great coaches who were once "mediocre" players at best.

neither or both, it depends on you, if they can relate to you and have something to offer then they are "your" best teacher.

i've had teachers who were tops in their field and were absolutely horrible teachers ,and i've had teachers who altho they knew little more than i did, they were able to teach it in a way that helped me on a much deeper level.

Both or neither - the best teacher is one who is born to teach. Teaching well is a talent, in itself.

That was very well said. I think a teacher has to possess alot of patience as well. I've known people who play very well but didn't have much patience when trying to show someone else something.

While I agree with the point that teaching is a completely seperate skill, I'll assume that the two players in the poll are of equal teaching talent and give my answer under that assumption... but I'm afraid it's still swings and roundabouts in my view. The hard worker would more likely have a better understanding of why the things he does work as he's had to study it hard to get it into his head, but the natural would probably have a better understanding of how to bend the rules to the music as he isn't so bound by rote learning.

It's not enough for teachers to have natural teaching ability, they also need knowledge, i.e. something to teach - and that can only be gained by years of study and experience. Musical knowledge is just one part - the other part is knowing how to teach. Playing ability falls far behind those two in importance.

Given that neither of those guitarists in the poll are actually teachers, but they're all we've got until a real teacher comes along, I'd go for the one who studied guitar long and hard - because he or she at least knows what it's like as a learner to struggle with constant difficulties, and can relate to the student much better.

Teaching isn't about how well you play - it's about how well you understand the instrument and associated stuff (physiology, repertoire and techniques within genres, theory and history for answering questions, etc.) and how well you can communicate.

All other things being equal, the one who had to work for every note will probably be the better teacher. I'm thinking of Bud Herseth, who retired a little while ago from the Chicago Symphony after over 50 years. Everything I've heard about Bud comes down to two things:

1. He never played a bad note - not in rehearsal, not in performance
2. He was a lousy teacher

The brass players who've told me about his teaching all speculated that because Bud was such a 'natural' as a musician, he never had to struggle with the common problems of regular mortals - so he didn't know how to solve them.

When I have a problem to solve in my own playing, how well a teacher plays is wayyyy down on the list of things I look for.

A few of the skills I rank higher than a teacher's playing ability:

1. A good ear. If you can't hear what I'm doing, how can you help improve it? A teacher who can rip won't be as good as a teacher who listens attentively.

2. Good communication skills. If you can't tell me what I'm doing wrong, and why it's wrong... how can I learn from you? And if the only way you can express an idea is by playing it for me, that puts all the burden of figuring out the 'how' on me!

3. A sense of organization. Some problems are molehills, some are mountains. If mine is a mountain, can you pick out a logical route to climb, and design exercises to chart the journey?

4. Creativity. Last year I read about a teacher at Julliard who teaches phrasing by having students play their name for him. Play your name. So simple it's truly profound. A teacher like that is worth his weight in gold to a musician - and a teacher like that (assuming you're not a beginner) can probably improve the playing of any guitarist even if that teacher doesn't even play guitar!

5. Work ethic. I'm not at a lesson to talk about my weekend, the heat wave outside, or your favorite sports team. I don't want to hear you playing stuff to show off, unless it directly relates to the lesson material. Time is money, and it's my money on the table!

Just my two cents worth.

I definitely agree that being a good teacher at anything is a talent all of it's own. But given the two options, I think the person that practiced a lot had to teach a lot of it to himself (or have someone else teach it to him), so they are more likely to be aware of what worked for them at what didn't. However, you can go a step further and notice that the greatest teachers are the ones who can go beyond this and figure out what works for a particular student as well - a skill not related to talent in the subject being taught at all.

I have had a few people over the years ask me to give them lessons, but I really don't enjoy it. I just do not have the patience in that type of setting. I remember trying to show a fellow how to change from an A5 to D5 power chord. This fellow just did not have much natural talent for guitar and could not get this simple change. It was very frustrating for me.

But I feel I can teach here on GN. I don't know music or theory like NoteBoat, but I can tab out songs and solos and describe what a player is doing in my own non-musical terms. But I don't have to sit a hour while someone struggles with it. So this works better for my personality.

I don't think a teacher has to be a great player. Most importantly I believe a teacher has to be able to communicate well with their students. And I think a good teacher does need to have a system or method to guide a student. And a good teacher must know how to motivate someone to practice and believe in themselves. Everything I think NoteBoat said. :D

I do believe that someone who has to work hard appreciates guitar much more. I know for myself that I could never give up guitar simply because it would be throwing away the many years of hard work, practice, and study I've put into the instrument. And I don't know about others, but it is the difficulty of guitar that I like. I need a challange. If something is too easy it becomes boring.

I wrote in the other thread about a friend of mine who had incredible natural talent for guitar. I knew this kid (next door neighbor) and knew exactly when he started guitar. In one year he was fantastic. I wrote he could play any Van Halen solo note for note and he could. I actually believe he was better than Eddie. I really mean that. But my friend one day just stopped playing. I think he was bored with guitar. And as far as I know he has never played again and doesn't miss it. So maybe having to work hard to play is a good thing. I know it is for me.

Everything else being equal, the person who had to figure out different ways to solve problems will have more tools in their tool chest to impart to their student.

neither

I was 40 when I picked up the guitar and I dont have 10 hours ..or 10 days ...

I'm nearly 43 and I can strum and change some chords

( is that playing ? If it is then I am now playing )

I call it practicing

On the teaching side of things
( I can't play and don't know enough to teach)

So I will put it this way , I coached athletics for years took athletes to State finals / Nationals but I could not sprint properly myself when I was younger . A teacher / coach does not have to be talented in any field other then these 2

1 - Brilliant communicator - not good but brilliant

2 - Knowledgeable - Know his/her stuff back wards

How to gain knowledge is a contentious point I gained my knowledge of sprinting from watching athletes train / preform , talking to coaches officicals and so on ..

Cover the two points and you have a good teacher / coach in anything , I was a very well regarded athletics coach for a number of years in my town . I have always given honest evaluations of athletes when asked and never put my self before a athlete .

I know this is a bit off the topic but it's the only way I address this issue

cheers
Hilch :?:

Great thread....and some good points to think about when looking for the right teacher.

Total Nonsense. Like any bold generalization generally tends to be. In my experience those who think their awesome sometimes actually are. Some work hard, some have talent, some both and some neither. Believing you are good has little to with your actual skills and more with personality.

Believing you are good has little to with your actual skills and more with personality.

Aquote from ARJEN :

Self belief is the key to anything , it won't ensure greatness but the desire is already there . If you think you suck , then you will suck for a long time if you think your pretty darn good then you will want to try harder stuff not just music/guitars but LIFE ...

While self confidence is a good thing, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to ensure skill. I know a number of self-effacing and even insecure people who are brilliant at what they do. Quite often people who are talented are very doubtful of their skills despite what others think. It's sad, but true: Self confidence is not nearly as common among the talented as one might think.