Hi all,
This post is about two guitars of the same make and model that were made in different countries. They're both Epiphone SG400s, supposedly of the same ‘faded' model and style but one was made in Korea and the other in China. So are they ‘Identical Twins' or not? It turns out that the answer is no.
But first some quick background as to why I now have two. Like most of us here I have been infected by the GAS virus. So, in the long search for the perfect companion, I've bought several guitars over the past 3 years. A month or two ago I bought a good mid priced guitar – an Epiphone SG400 - that has completely won me over, and which I now play every day. I enjoy each of the guitars I have, and they all do things differently, but the SG400 now feels like “My Guitar†in the same way that Vic's Tele is “His†above the others he owns.
Anyway, last week I caught sight of an ad for an “Epiphone Clearance Sale†at a local store. It's a large and well established store with a generally good reputation (in other words they are no more obviously villainous than their competitors….). The story was that they'd imported a container load and were doing good deals. Good deals indeed – including SG400s for a bit over half ‘Recommended Retail' price. OK, full retail is a price that you don't usually pay, and it's easy enough to get 10% or 15% off it, but this was a lot more off than usual (44% off in this case).
So of course – who could resist having a “spare†at that price? :wink: I have two practice areas and it's a bit awkward to cart a guitar up the narrow staircase between them. Maybe I could keep them in different tunings… :) And I now have both colours… 8) well it was easy enough to find reasons why it was almost essential to have the other one. I was also interested to see how different the ‘same' guitar was when made in China versus Korea. Quite a bit it seems.
Firstly, they aren't the same size. The woodwork on the Chinese one is slightly larger in the body, and almost half an inch longer overall (due to a longer headstock and body). One neck has binding down the side, the other doesn't. But all the essential elements are identical – fret spacing, length from nut to bridge, etc. All the general ‘furniture' – pickups, knobs, tuners, bridge parts, switch, etc are also identical. It's the woodworking that is obviously the product of two different shops. You may not be able to see clearly from the photos, but the headstocks are actually quite different in size and shape, plus the logo is very different, and even the typeface on the writing is a slightly different size. One headstock has a shiny finish, whilst the other is matt. On the back, the ‘shoulder' where the neck meets the body is different in size, and the back access plate is at a different angle and position (Although the plates themselves are the same. The apparent colour variation from black to grey was because one still has the protective plastic on). The red Chinese one also had a strap knob on the back (which I've removed) near the neck whereas the Korean one didn't.
So is this just what happens when you go to another, presumably cheaper country, for your manufacture? Is it worse or just different? Indeed, could it even be a fake? My guess is that it's just normal variation between factories. If you were going to make a copy it would be logical, and profitable, to pass it off as a Gibson SG400 which is worth a lot more. Also, whilst a dealer in fakes might get their copies made somewhere like China they would presumably want to badge them as coming from the USA or Japan, not put a “Made in China†sticker on them.
So, does any of this actually matter?
As far as I'm concerned they both feel the same, play the same and sound the same. So I'm very happy indeed. I don't mind where it was made, it's what it plays like that matters to me. To some extent all Epi SG400s are 'fake' Gibson SG400s anyway, so for me it's the sound that matters not the country.
What do you think? Do the Chinese know how to make guitars yet? Does “Made in China†put you off? Are there any countries that you automatically either favour or avoid when it comes to manufacture of guitars?
Cheers,
Chris
Good review Chris, i think you've summed it up quite well.
My only real experience with Chinese made guitars came from my 1st purchase of an OE-30 from MF.
I bought a blue one because the catalog and online pictures looked nice. however when i opened the box the stain job was very uneven and streaky.
I decided i would have less problems with a black model so i returned it for an exchange.
The one i got was made in Indonesia and is very nice.
they both felt and sounded pretty much identical.
#4491....
I bought a blue one because the catalog and online pictures looked nice. however when i opened the box the stain job was very uneven and streaky.
Thanks for the reply TL. Interesting that you should have had that experience with the stain. The stain job was actually the first thing I noticed on the Chinese one. I'd seen the faded cherry version on a Korean made model and the stain was much more lightly applied. Same with my 'natural look' version - both were done quite subtly. Whereas the Chinese ones had a very obvious brown stain, and a more heavily applied red stain. Both OK in this case, just apparently applied differently.
It rather looks to me as if Epiphone supply all the hardware but perhaps leave some leeway on the woodworking side of things to the contracting company, who quite possibly also build for other brands. The lack of neck binding, heavier stain, and also the fact that the assembler had put the bridge saddle on back to front :roll: did make the Chinese one look slightly less slick in some way than the other one. But after a quick setup and polish it looks, plays and sounds every bit as good as its cousin. :)
Cheers,
Chris
It rather looks to me as if Epiphone supply all the hardware but perhaps leave some leeway on the woodworking side of things to the contracting company, who quite possibly also build for other brands. The lack of neck binding, heavier stain, and also the fact that the assembler had put the bridge saddle on back to front :roll: did make the Chinese one look slightly less slick in some way than the other one.
The Korean Epiphones were made by Samick, along with half the other guitars in the world.
The Chinese Epiphones are made by ... Epiphone. They built their own factory supposedly to improve quality control, but I'd be willing to speculate that cost considerations were the primary factor. ;)
EPI: I understand Epiphone has even opened its own factory in China. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
JIM (Epi president): Sure. And I think it's a great follow-up to the topic of quality. Ten to fifteen years ago, many Epiphone guitars were made at the same factories where many other guitars were and are currently made. In this case, it's difficult, if not impossible, to have a substantially better instrument than your competition when the parts, process and people to make them are the same. Therefore, in order to produce a superior instrument, we needed to open our own factory. So in October 2002, we opened Qingdao Gibson - our own factory near Qingdao, China dedicated to making Epiphone and only Epiphone guitars. To my knowledge, we are the only U.S. guitar company with their own factory in Asia. That's a significant difference.
In any case, Chinese factories are capable of making very high quality guitars, such as the Blueridge acoustics. I would guess that design differences come from the manufacturer, not the factory. The backwards bridge is just poor QC, but that can happen anywhere.
"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."
Excellent info Slej. Thanks very much for that. :D
No surprises that Samick was in there somewhere, but it was very interesting to hear that the Chinese operation is actually now more under the control of Epiphone rather than less so. I'd rather imagined that it might have been going in the other direction. So it was good to have my guesswork replaced with some more accurate information. 8)
I can't see much evidence that they've yet managed to "produce a superior instrument", but it does seem similar anyway. Great to be able to put the differences in context though. I'll have to keep an eye on them now and see if the usual prices here drop or fluctuate, and what the quality looks like in the future. I guess they would hope to either be able to be more profitable with their own factory, or maybe to just be able to hold prices increases down for longer. Either way, more direct control can often have advantages in both quality control and cost management.
China seems to be going ahead at considerable speed now, so it will be interesting to see how their guitar making does develop. As you say, they do seem to have the ability, if they get the chance to apply it. The usual trend seems to be to grab some market share with low prices/cheap labour and then build up the quality side of things. So maybe I'll be able to buy a cheap Chinese Gibson version before too long...
Cheers,
Chris
Interesting post. In principle it doesn't matter where a guitar is made if it looks good, sounds good and feels good that's all that should matter.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Interesting post. In principle it doesn't matter where a guitar is made if it looks good, sounds good and feels good that's all that should matter.
I agree. :D
Looking over the guitars I've bought, most of them have been made in Asia, but the quality has mostly been fine, especially when compared with the price. I guess the manufacturing shifts around the world have mainly been driven by labour prices, but it doesn't seem to automatically mean poor quality.
I have 3 Johnson guitars - which, if I remember correctly, were all made in China. The QC on these was the worst of all the guitars I own, but this is only to be expected as they were also the cheapest. I had to do fairly extensive set-ups on all of them as they appeared to have been thrown together at speed in the factory. One had to have a new nut before it was properly playable, another had to have the nut reworked, and all 3 had to have the action changed considerably. But once set up they were all undoubtedly good value for the low price I paid. I think the relatively poor condition on arrival was due more to them being cheap bottom of the range goods than just where they were made.
The rest have been roughly 'mid-priced' and have come from Indonesia (a Yamaha Strat copy) Japan (a Terada acoustic) Taiwan (Yamaha classical) Korea (apart from the Epi, my Yamaha AES 620 was also made in Korea) and Canada (Seagull). All of those were very nicely made, are good to play, and have have proved good buys all round. :)
Maybe I need to speed up my savings plan and buy a Gibson while they still make guitars in the USA... :wink: I tried a Gibson SG 400 at the place where I bought the last Epi. Expensive but nice.... too nice for my own good....... I can put genuine Gibson pickups in one of the Epis and still have spent only half what the Gibson would cost here. But GAS is a stranger to logic... sigh... :roll:
Cheers,
Chris
I have 3 Johnson guitars - which, if I remember correctly, were all made in China. The QC on these was the worst of all the guitars I own, but this is only to be expected as they were also the cheapest.
I'll tell you how my pink $70 ebay-special Johnson bass is when I get it; should be any day now. Your comment on the nuts being bad is especially interesting to me. I've got some other parts to buy, but I've been waiting specifically to see how the nut is and whether or not it will need replacing. Sounds like I should plan on it. :lol:
"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."
I recently read somewhere that all but the Elitist Epiphones are now being made at factorys in China and Czechoslovakia.
This was in reguards to the drop in QC on the LP reviews i read.
Does anyone know if this is true?
personally, i don't care if a guitar is made on the laps of virgins in Cuba or by Droids on Tatooine, i just want a nice quality instrument at a reasonable price.
I've been saving for a few years now (a few bucks here and there) for a nice mid/upper range HH solid body guitar. I've been torn between LPs and SGs and many other designs and the Asian made ones have really come a long way.
Lately the Michael Kelly Valor Limited (Korean?) has been pulling at me.
neck-through body, strings through body, and coil tapped for $500 at MF
Does it get any better than this???
http://www.michaelkellyguitars.com/valor_limited.html 
#4491....
Tl,
Pretty nice looking guitars. I like the one on the bottom with the lighter color. Have you played them before?
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Tl,
Pretty nice looking guitars. I like the one on the bottom with the lighter color. Have you played them before?
i've played a few other Kelly models unplugged, and they seem to be very solidly built. i would suspect that the electronics may need to be upgraded but the reviews seem to vary.
#4491....
The Chinese Epiphones are made by ... Epiphone. They built their own factory supposedly to improve quality control, but I'd be willing to speculate that cost considerations were the primary factor. ;)
My Epiphone Les Paul was made in China and the quality control is not so many... There were minor problems, they aren't severes but I didn't feel good with it. For example, one of the knobs touched the top, I had to pull from it for avoiding any hurt in the top. One of the tuners is not aligned with the other five.
Probably they are stupid things but you are paying a lot of money (more than 400 € in my case) and you want all these things are reviewed.
PS. Chris, good review! :)
From a construction standpoint I don't have any issues with a guitar made in China as long as the tone is there. From an ethical standpoint however, I do have a probelm with pumping money into the economy of a country with such an abysmal human rights record.
I'll get off my soapbox now :oops:
Immature? Of course I'm immature Einstein, I'm 50 and in a Rock and ROll band.
New Band site http://www.myspace.com/guidedbymonkeys
Slightly off topic but....
http://www.michaelkellyguitars.com/dragonfly5_fretless.html
This is the one. TwistedLefty posted a link to this company. I was checkin it out and found this bass. Now, think about it. It's a fretless bass. The pearl inlay runs all the way down the kneck. If you have a pearl inlay on a fretless neck, the strings will rattle on the pearl inlay when pressed down. Play any note near the inlay, the string will rattle on the inlay. I found this out when I bought a used Fender Jazz in which the frets were removed, and rattleing strings, leading to an unplayable instrument was the result. Who ever took out the frets was wanting a fretless bass, found that he/she ruined the bass, and sold it. I bought it, and replaced the neck. SO, the above bass is TOTALLY USELESS!!! Whoever designed and produced this instrument knows very little about stringed instruments. Therefore, I would not recomend this company to anyone. I saw one of these in a store recently and just laughed. It had an outrageous price tag and wasn't useable for any thing more than a wall decoration. Now, if you like an instrument that rattles and cannot be played, this one's for you.
Further reading says it's the top selling fretless bass in the world. :lol:
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Brain-cleansing music for brain-numbing times in a brain dead world
http://www.oenyaw.com
Back to the Epiphone SG's.....actually, I like Epi's, nice guitars in my experience. I don't think it matters where the guitar's made, as long as it feels good and sounds good. And it's good to see someone else who's found the perfect guitar for themselves and it isn't a Gibson or Fender!
I know I've told it before, but when I bought the Squier Tele, I tried a few Fender Tele's in the shop - and a couple of Gibson LP's. The Squier Tele felt, and sounded better to me than the more expensive models. I'm off shopping next week - and guess what's top of my list? Yep, another Squier Custom Tele. This time, though, I'm going to try the model with the P90's and compare it in situ with the humbucker model through the amp I'm going to buy while I'm there.
So you like the Epi SG's Chris - and I bet both of yours didn't cost as much as one "real" SG. Stick with what you know and like, is my advice!
:D :D :D
Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)
