Playing and Singing

Well - I sing and play, but that's just what I've always done....I bought a guitar in the first place to play songs, but I always wanted to sing them as well.

Never thought of taking singing lessons, even though I don't like my own voice - but it's always been my way to just charge in a la bull-in-a-china-shop, head down and go for it. When I first started going to those jam sessions in my local pub a few years back; first of all, I just played along with the simpler songs. Then started singing along with some of them - then, with a bit of pushing, started singing solo to some songs that other people would join in with...then I tried introducing new songs instead of the same old same old comfortable "hey we play this one every week so let's play it this week" songs.

The point I'm getting to, in a roundabout way, is you've got to push yourself - or get someone else to push you. Get yourself out of the playing for yourself, to yourself, by yourself rut. You've made a start by finding a jam buddy - you're pushing yourself further by finding a singing teacher. I hope the singing lessons give you the confidence to stretch your voice a little, find out what range you've got and what range you could have.

What I am curious about, Roy - how do all the problems you've had with your ear(s) affect your singing? I've read a few times that you can't play loud music for long....how does that affect your singing?

Anyway, all the best, hope it goes well for you mate....keep us posted!

The open mic nights are beckoning.....

:D :D :D

Vic

Roy ! all right !!
Vic is so correct when he says one has to push themselves. since I have been recording I have noticed
things I hadn't before. LOL yeah. my voice for one. ain't the greatest but I sang the day I picked up guitar. I don't see it stopping. when I record a vocal track and solo it, my god. it's embarrassing. but when the guitar track is activated things begin to sound pretty good. my point is, the next time I record my vocals I am more cognizant of the previous performance.
I push myself more.
lessons are a good idea. I have begun to think about it too.
I thought the instructor usually had a piano and you were to stand next to it?
posture. posture.? do re me me me. :note1: :note2:

What I am curious about, Roy - how do all the problems you've had with your ear(s) affect your singing? I've read a few times that you can't play loud music for long....how does that affect your singing?

It's touch and go. Hour to hour sometimes. Long status on it all below. The vocal lessons. The first one is the only scheduled one. It's 5-10 minutes away from the house. My wife is driving me there if I need. We'll establish what needs to be establshed and agreed upon. After that, I am on a call me up when someone cancels basis. No way I could commit to a once a week schedule. If he gets a cancellation, he can call me and see if I'm up to it. If yes, great. If no, we'll try the next time. We've dealt with them before (brief guitar and my son's drum lessons) and get along with the owner just fine. ie, we pay out bills. LOL Seriously, if you told me at the beginning of the year that I would be able to take a vocal lesson with the head the way it was, I would have hit you very hard for such a bad lie.

LONG STATUS PORTION!!!!
I am being treating, according to my doctor, "Like a Lyme Disease Patient". Almost had to do hospital on Jan 4th. Tried to jam the day after....dummy. Fast forward to last week and I might now have a whole day here and there where I do not have a fever. Massive med changes. The thinking is now that the Mastoid may have been at the end of a series of connections.

Judging what I can do is where it gets tricky. I can talk at normal levels fine now for short durations. Singing is tougher. Some days, no way anything above a quiet murmer...and that's just fine by myself. Does the job. Some days, I could belt out a few tunes. Maybe 30 minutes? When I did that song with dogbite, I could do 2-4 takes a sitting. I could probably double that now.

Loud noises still bother me immensely, but with ear plugs, I can endure short time durations most of the time. A movie at the theater, a few songs turned up enough to drown out the buzzing in my ears, things like that I can get through. Still lots and lots of clean, low volume guitar. Somedays I'll play the accoustic if I'm feeling I can handle the volume. That Boss GT-10 lets me do some Rock music and it outputs the tone at low volumes if I need it. Wicked cool. Sometimes even the tone is too much, not even at low volumes can i do it.

I saw Bill Kirchen a few weeks back. That one got me good. I paid the price. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, though.

My son and I just played "loud" music and I sang one song. We did For Whom The Bell Tolls by Metallica for about 20 minutes, and then a few lighter ones. Maybe 45 minutes or so. The whole left rear portion of my head is vibrating and I just took another dose of all the meds including those for pain. Was it worth it? Hell yeah!!!! I do put myself in to a lot of pain that I don't need to be in, but if I'm gonna have to take all that stuff anyhow, I might as well let it really have something to fight. :)

We're not talking extreme thing here either. I can't watch movies with my neighbor unless I have earplugs in. Our dogs barking is murder. Especially the Retriever. 'Oy!

Oh, the "loud" volume? In a room with our two dogs and my wife and it didn't bother anyone else but me. Doh! I think...I know we had at least one cat in there too.

So, if my ear and head pain were at it's worse, on a scale from 1 to 100, it was a 100. Right now it's probably averageing a 70-80. About a 90 right now, but we did just play some music a bit ago. Still taking pain meds...strong ones....6 times a day. That's not the massive med change. I also make sure I rest my head frequently, and I allow myself over an hour in the morning of sitting up without anything touching my head to release the internal pressure enough to be able to surf the web or strum guitar or email with my wife. I also, on the good days, pick out a chore around the house that I can do in under an hour and time it for right before I have to dose up. Dishes maybe, laundry folding...something to contribute. Makes me feel better emotionally, like I'm worth something more than a monthly disability check. I'm able to cook a few meals a week for sife and son. The one thing I am really good at. All in all, it's better. Beats 16-20 hours a day in bed or couch. Long way to go, but we've also come a long way.

That's great that you are starting to take some lessons on the singing! Wish I could afford them, right now I'm just beating down the virtual door of a whole bunch of youtube people as well as those on here about vocals.

I think you'll find you will grow exponentially in your voice with lessons. Can't wait to hear some things after a few lessons!

I took voice lessons years ago. At the time I was also playing guitar, but I never even considered taking one to a voice lesson. In my opinion, you're better off without the guitar. You're paying the guy to help you work on your singing. He will want to talk about breathing, posture, forming proper vowel sounds, staying on pitch, etc. The guitar will be a distraction. Also, if you sit while you play, you'll be in a bad posture for singing. If you stand, it will be better. Yes, people play and sing all the time and I'm one of them. You'll just get more out of the lessons if you stick to singing.

Tips? (1) Practice, practice, practice. (2) Don't drink coffee before the lesson. It will cause a lot of phlegm. (3) If you do just a few voice exercises before you go to the lesson, you can spend less time warming up when you're there and more time working on other things. (4) If you don't like the music that the instructor gives you to work on, let him know.

Wow hobson, the lessons sound quite intense. I'm sure that's what I need.

I think my thinking has of evolved to walking in with only my debit card and go from there. Maybe print out my song list and a few chord sheets just so he knows what I am working on. Well, at least have it in the car.

Hmm I'm not much of a singer and have never taken lessons but I would have to think Hobson has it right I'd leave the guitar home.

You're going there to work on your voice not your guitar playing and I think at the beginning the fact that you want to sing and play guitar at the same time is irrelevant. You have to first be able to sing and stay in pitch that needs to happen without the guitar first.

I would bet there would be several lessons based on the fundamentals of posture, breathing, exercises etc. necessary before you moved into actually singing songs but maybe not.

It'll be interesting to hear how they go.

In addition to learning how to play guitar and bass someday :roll: I'd like to learn to sing, and to sing at the same time I'm playing! Sometimes you can't tell what the song is without a vocal.

Maybe I can sing, but I have a 40 year mental block about it. When I was 13 I wanted to join the 8th grade Glee Club. I auditioned for the music teacher, who promptly sent me back to class. I have assumed for 40 years that it's because I cannot sing. :oops:

As a pro musician, I found out early that the hardest person to find for a band is a good singer.

So I learned to sing. As a sax player, I already had the basics (breathe with diaphragm instead of chest, posture, projection) and with a trip to the library I became an adequate singer. (I was on the road at that time, so lessons were out of the question.)

When the psychedelic era came around and saxes were no longer in demand, I learned to play bass. Playing bass and singing is harder than playing guitar and singing, but it can be done.

I learned the bass part to the song first, and practiced it until I could play it without paying attention to it. Then I did the same with the vocals. Finally I put them together. After stumbling for a while it was possible to pay attention to the vocals and play the bass without much thought. As time went on and I had more songs under my belt, it got somewhat easier.

But I was never the primary singer in the band, so I never progressed more than being an adequate singer.

When I started the duo with Leilani http://www.s-cats.com , who is a fantastic singer, I had to learn to sing more than a few songs per night. Even the best singer needs a break. So I learned more and more songs.

Now I'm a decent singer, I can play guitar when I sing (it's easier than bass/vocals), and I sing almost half the songs. Leilani still sings most of the more difficult songs, especially slow ballads, because I am limited by the equipment I was born with (baritone range, without a lot of edge on the voice). It's not like a guitar where you can trade in your 60's Italia for a Gibson Les Paul. I have the pipes that I have.

Singing hours a night on stage is a good way to develop your voice (after learning the fundamentals so that you don't hurt yourself). After all, if you can't practice on stage, where CAN you practice? ;-)

It's good that you are taking lessons. Learn the fundamentals, how to breathe, how to project, how to pronounce the consonants, etc., and sing a lot. Like anything else in music, there is no substitute for practice.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Alrighty, that was not too bad. As much as I could cram into a 30 minute introductory session. We hit it off just fine, although she was trying to show me an example of something and almost blew my ear out with her powerful voice. I did bring in with me 5 chord sheets of songs that I think I do the best at. After the initial conversation and such, she had me sing .... but not without a guitar. She made me grab the one in the room and told me to bring mine next time, "the one you're used to playing" and that if I'm going to sing while playing, I'm going to learn to sing...while playing. I was surprised as you guys.

Nothing too noteworthy other than that. I need to open my mouth up more wider was the only thing so far. I'm sure there will be much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, more. I brought in easy songs this session. Wait till next week. I'll let her dictate what to start with and where to progress. I figured that I had better bring easy songs to start with, vocally speaking, to learn the basics on more of my natural voice.

Here's the age difference. She's heard one or two of the four I brought in, but never the "Knocking on Heaven's Door". I might have to give her youtube links.

Wow so much for my opinion. I just wrote another one for one of your other posts, based on this I'd say do the opposite of what I told you on that one..

Well I guess it's a good thing then you can use your guitar for the lessons. Maybe you can just burn a CD with all the songs you do/want to do and bring it with you every week. That's what i do when I'm working on a song with my guitar instructor.

Wow so much for my opinion...........
I sincerely wish that you not stop offering your opinions. Looking at things through others' persepectives in infinitely valuable.
Well I guess it's a good thing then you can use your guitar for the lessons. Maybe you can just burn a CD with all the songs you do/want to do and bring it with you every week. That's what i do when I'm working on a song with my guitar instructor.
That sounds like a good plan. I've recorded 3 out of 4 of the songs I printed out. I could burn the original and then my version for each.

I am trying to determine a song that I feel I struggle with vocally, but isn't an impossible pitch for me to get to. One might say any song I know. :lol: :cry:

I also do not like the 1/2 hour sessions. I don't know why they went from 45 minutes to 30 minutes other than financial gain. Due to logistics, I think I am going to try and get the hour sessions.

Thanks Roy as for lessons I always have an internal struggle with lessons as a whole. Alot of the stuff you may get introduced to at a lesson takes time to actually learn it so what happens the next lesson, you go over the same thing over and over and for how long before you move on. It's almost like to me you should have a lesson and depending on the complexity of the assignment schedule one for the next week or two weeks or whatever but teacher's don't work like that.

I give you credit definitely for exploring voice lessons I had thought about it before but decided I barely have enough time to devote to guitar and when am I really going to sing anyway, I'm not a solo performer or much of an acoustic player plus none of music I liek lend itself much to that style or else the songs I want to play there is no way I'm singing them in my lifetime.

Roy, it surprises the heck out of me that your voice teacher wants you to bring your guitar at this early stage of your lessons. But if that's her approach, she must have a reason (other than you wanting to).

One thing about voice lessons is that you don't really know if you're doing things right until you go in for the next lesson. So it's good to have the lessons on a regular basis to make sure that you're working on the right techniques.