Song Chain Update

OK, I got the ball back from Pearl and geesh . . .
she was none too happy about it.
Girls! :roll:

Sent to Chris C...
QUIT BUGGING ME!! :D
Hi,

How did you send it Pearl? I didn't get it. Nothing in the PM box from you yet.

Not trying to hassle you - I can wait - but just saying that I didn't get the song lyrics yet, either from you or anybody else.

Cheers,

Chris

Hmmm,

I got a copy sent back to me . . . . . maybe . . . . . . . oh, I'll just pass it on to you Chris.

Neil

Hmmm,

I got a copy sent back to me . . . . . maybe . . . . . . . oh, I'll just pass it on to you Chris.

Neil

Tactfully put Neil. :D Thanks, I just got your PM with the song it, a few moments ago. According to Vic's list I should pass it on to crkt246 once I've added a line. So I'll try and sort it later today.

Chris

The girls haven't learned to pass yet.
Now, if it was gossip . . . . nevermind, I'll go for tactful too . . . or is it too late?

OK, I sent it on to crkt246. I don't know if they're expecting it or not as not everybody on the list actually volunteered to be on it. Anyway, I've asked them to post back here and confirm it arrived.

Chris

Yes, I must admit, I was hoping for something organic....
Hoping that the song would work itself out.
That's probably not going to happen though.
Hey, I've always been an idealistic dreamer :wink:

I usually write three verse songs.... If Nick says four verses and a chorus, that sounds like the plan.
That should hopefully give everyone a turn.

As far as Davids' idea of just seeing the previous line; I like that, except....
How would anyone know what the rhyming pattern is....?
Or what words to rhyme with?

Ken
Hi Ken,

I've now seen 14 lines, and some thoughts occur about the process so far:

1: There's been some great images and ideas
2: They're not always all marching to the same drum, as far as the pulse of an actual song goes.
3: I couldn't see any special advantage to keeping it out of view, by passing it around ‘behind the scenes'
4: It might give better results if some music was there first.

So here's some suggestions for one possible ‘spin off' version:

1: Start with an existing song, and write new lyrics for it.
Presumably this would mean either taking a traditional non copyright song, using something that one of us already wrote, or running up a dummy template to suit the exercise.

The reason for this is that you'd end up with a singable song, and new songwriters in particular could get a feel for how you match words to the pulse of the music, how you pick a theme and then develop it as you go, etc.

2: Call for volunteers, in the same way that the Online Jams and Collaborations work here.
Allocated a verse each, or at least a pair of lines. If all the slots aren't filled just start anyway and allow new people to volunteer once they've seen the progress. If all slots aren't completed by new writers, send it round the circle again until it's finished.

3: Do it in public. Have the thread starter update each new verse into the top post.

4: It could be done here or in the other Songwriter Club forum, or in the Collaborations forum.
A lot of so called songs that I see in forums really aren't songs, or even decent lyrics, they're more like efforts at poetry. Songs require some sort of match between words and music, especially the way the rhythm and emphasis of the words needs to match the pulse and drive of the music. For new writers especially, it could be a useful exercise to practice writing new lyrics to fit a structure that has already been set up. It's actually not all that easy to do it the other way around - to write a set of words and then create a coherent musical composition to fit it, unless the lyric writer already has a reasonable feel for what makes good lyrics, and can be sung effectively, as opposed to what just looks like an OK thought in words.

Anyway, I'm sure that we'll get quite a few ideas about other ways of doing joint projects, so that's just one to chew on. :)

Cheers,

Chris

I like the idea Chris.
Especially the idea of taking an existing tune and putting new words to it and seeing the progress.

From what I saw of the song, ummmm. . . it lacked cohesion.

Like you said, there's going to be people with their ideas and so here's my thoughts and questions.

1. First of all, I WANT IN, please.
2. When this current song is done (or even before as far as I'm concerned), why don't you take charge of the next one? and make the rules. I like what you've come up with so far.
3. Is this the appropriate board to use? Does DH mind? or should it go to the Songwriting Club board?
4. Does the song have to be non-copyrighted? Are there legal problems with just changing words to a song for educational purposes?

Hi Chris :D

Glad you've joined us 8)

Just about to go to bed.... Thought I'd check in real quick.

Um.... Well, this was based on the time that my friend John gave me a late 30's/early 40's Royal manual portable typewriter for my birthday.
We had to tweak it a bit to get it working properly, then started typing lines - One from me, one from him, then back to me, etc....
We tried to keep thematic similarity based solely on the original line, though it took on weird twists that the other was never really ready for.
The lines were thought up spontaneously and immediately (much like Vic described this exercise).

I was originally going to do something along those lines, and had mentioned it to Straycat.

Then I was in a PM with Vic when it hit me to do a 'chain' version with several other people.

I thought there would be just a circle of us that it would go 'round to til the song was finished.
So, my thought was to keep it 'private' because seeing how it was going before your turn came up again might lead you to 'formulate' a line that wouldn't work until you had ALL the lines before you.... Does that make sense????

I guess I was just trying to keep it a bit more on the spontaneous side.

Seeing as it grew to quite a few more than a little circle of participants, that perhaps wasn't quite the best thing to do.

Maybe 'formalizing' it and 'going public' with it would better the exercise.

I see no problem with having a tune first.... I write songs in a few different ways.
Having a musical idea to where it's going is helpful at times.

And perhaps having a 'theme' would help as well.

Though, my original intent was to have fun with the collective souls of the SSG, and hoped something 'interesting' would come of it.
Sort of an 'SSG Dream Crossing' if you will.

I guess the difference between my original intent, and the newly proposed is like the difference between what Ken Kesey did compared to what Timothy Leary was doing at the same time.

Fun or formal.... It's up to the SSG collective :D

As to this Sunday's assignment - I was on the way back from Far Far Away Friday, and turned on a station that I don't normally listen to.
They played the Tesla acoustic version of 'Signs', a song that I hadn't heard in quite a while.
My first thought was: What a cool song, I should write something along those lines!

Yet another testament to the synchronicity of the SSG regs :wink:

Write On!

Ken

2. When this current song is done (or even before as far as I'm concerned), why don't you take charge of the next one? and make the rules.

Well, this is Ken's thread and Ken's idea (CitizenNoir), so I think that he gets first call on where it goes next. He generously invited suggestions, so I've given some, but I'm not aiming to take over his idea. It has proved to be popular and has sparked quite a few ideas, and plenty of interest, so I'd count it a big sucess even if it didn't end up as a completed song - and there's nothing to say that it won't either. Others here have a lot more musical talent than me.

Also, there's nothing stopping me - or you - starting another thread in one of the other forums, and seeing if it gets a response. Provided we feel like putting the work in.... :wink: It's an idea that I've been mulling over for a while - trying to work out a way to get people involved in way that allows them to learn in comfortable stages, with at least some of the work already done. A full song, that actually works, has quite a lot of components, and many people who'd like to try their hand at one or other aspect often find the whole basket too hard to pick up in one heave.

I see words with some lyric potential written by people who have little idea how to play the required music (like me, much of the time :roll: ), songs that could work if only the writer knew how to sing them, and so on. I'm sure that some intermediate steps could be useful.
4. Does the song have to be non-copyrighted? Are there legal problems with just changing words to a song for educational purposes?
Officially I'd say yes, quite probably. But you can't copyright a chord progression, and there are plenty of recognisable song 'types' that could be used. You could quite possibly get away with rejigging well known tunes, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of need to risk drawing unwelcome attention to GN when there are songs that could be used that are unlikely to cause anybody to set their lawyers onto you. Open for discussion for sure, but it would definitely have to be approved by the site admins and 'powers that be'.
Though, my original intent was to have fun with the collective souls of the SSG, and hoped something 'interesting' would come of it.
Sort of an 'SSG Dream Crossing' if you will.

I guess the difference between my original intent, and the newly proposed is like the difference between what Ken Kesey did compared to what Timothy Leary was doing at the same time.

CitizenNoir Ken, I agree with your aim and ideas. I absolutely don't think it needs to be an either/or. :D

Your spontaneous thing with the typewriter sounds great! It probably works best with just 2 who can keep that balance going between control and surprise, and it might be harder to do with so many here - but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. It's going fine. I'm just seeing other possibilities as well.

Cheers,

Chris

Hi,

No sign of crkt246 yet.

Elvis appears to have left the building for the time being. I don't think I know crkt246, so does anybody know if he or she actually intended to joint in on this ? I sent the song on yesterday morning but it's still sitting in the Outbox, which means that they haven't checked their PMs yet.

There are two lines still needed to finish the fourth verse - so is there anybody else left who is waiting to have a turn? Will there be enough people to finish a fifth verse if it gets started?

I'm not going to be around much for the next few days. So if it doesn't get collected soon perhaps I should delete it and pass it back to Ken (CitizenNoir) to decide who gets it next??

Cheers,

Chris

Hi again,

I've checked crkt246's profile a couple of times and , if the info is reading correctly, they've logged in at least twice this morning (or evening, depending on where you are) but haven't apparently noticed the message saying that they've got a new PM. So I've deleted it and sent it back to the song's Daddy - CitizenNoir.

I'm out the door in a couple of minutes, and I probably won't be on-line much for the rest of the week, so I don't want to hold you all up by leaving it stuck in limbo. Good luck with the rest of the song. :D

Chris

Hi all :D

I have Chris' PM, and I've PM'd Vic to discuss action....
We'll let you all know what's going on once we know :wink:

Ken

Let me know the time for the funeral service.
I'll see if I can be there to pay my respect.

OK, so here's the latest update on the song chain....it's finished. Well, sort of. It's finished, but still needs some work to turn it into a song....

When Ken (CitiZenNoir) got it back from Chris C, we were two lines short...so I added those, asked him what he thought. He seemed to like them, so here's the completed lyric....

I was walking down a road I've never travelled before....................Vic Lewis
lights from a city, or is it; dawn still in my eyes..........................CitiZenNoir
and pine trees bending in improvised semaphore.........................Straycat
Like messengers of ancient lies.............................................Celt

Thinking about the girl I love next door....................................BarnabusRox
I'm getting signals, or am I, a fool before her eyes.......................Pbee
Leaving me feeling more alone than I've ever felt before. ..............Katreich
A passenger of few goodbyes................................................Nick

I may not give you my last dollar but you can always count on me......DHodge
For a loving hand to hold, and lifelong certainty..........................Shady Harrison
Come travel this road with me for I am lonely.............................KenRogers2
This harbinger of faith and love denied....................................Chefie

Brittle brown needles cushion my tired feet..............................? PearltheKat ?
And as I fall towards their dark embrace I hear a sound ...............? Chris C ?
Of a tree falling in an unpopulated forest,.................................Vic Lewis
And I welcome the cool dark ground........................................Vic Lewis

Sooooo - where to go from here? Well - put some music to it, obviously....otherwise it's poetry, not a song. So with that in mind, here's a rough demo......

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=225059

Click on "The Chain Song".....

All I've done this for is to prove it CAN be put to music, despite the varying line lengths....I've made the four lines beginning with David's line into a bridge because, well, it just seemed to flow better that way.

The chords I've used are:

Intro...Am G F Em G

I was (Am)walking down a road I've never (G)travelled before
(F)lights from a city, or (Em)is it; dawn still (G)in my eyes
and (Am)pine trees bending in (G)improvised semaphore
(F)Like (Em)messengers of (G)ancient lies

(Am)Thinking about the girl I (G)love next door
I'm (F)getting signals, or (Em)am I, a fool be(G)fore her eyes
(Am)Leaving me feeling more a(G)lone than I've ever felt be(F)fore
A (Em)passenger of (G)few goodbyes

I (C)may not (G)give you (F)my last doll(G)ar but (C)you can (G)always (F)count on me(G)
(Am)For a (G)loving (F)hand to (Em)hold, and (G)lifelong certainty
(C)Come (G)travel this (F)road with me(G) (C)for (G)I am (F)lonely(G)
(Am)This (G)harbin(F)ger of (Em)faith and (G)love denied

(Am)Brittle brown needles cushion (G)my tired feet
And as I (F)fall towards their (Em)dark embrace I (G)hear a sound
Of a (Am)tree falling in an (G)unpopulated (F)forest
And I (Em)welcome the (G)cool dark ground

So.....any thoughts?

Ideally, I'd like as many of us who contributed to the writing to also contribute to the music as possible - anyone else want to do guitar (it needs re-doing anyway - by the time I'd spent hours working out the music then practising the timing and phrasing my fingers were bloody sore, and my throat was going....) or vocals - or maybe four people could do vocals, a verse each for three of 'em and the bridge for someone else? I'd suggest we need a guitar track, maybe a keyboard track - I was thinking organ, got a nice line ready to go! - a bass-line, drums (maybe Pbee could do the bass and congas?).

Any thoughts on the music? Perhaps someone's got a better chord progression? I picked this out because I wanted - well actually, Ken wanted - dark and sombre....but I also wanted something fairly easy, then any or most of us could actually play the guitar line.

Maybe if we had...

My guitar line (or someone else's) - picked
An electric guitar line....thinking very palm-muted, concentrating on the bass strings
A couple of acoustic guitars - maybe David or Kath's 12-strings?
Keyboard - organ? Piano, anyone?
Bass
Drums -or maybe congas - maybe someone could add tambourine?

Maybe.....a couple of lines at the start for someone to solo.....another couple of lines in the middle for someone else to solo.....and another couple of lines at the end for a third soloist?

Maybe - a second vocalist to come in at the end of every verse for the last line, and the last line of the bridge?

Maybe - well, come on, help me out here, anyone else got any ideas?

:D :D :D

Vic