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(@yashicamat)
Reputable Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 272
Topic starter  

Just a thought, but something I've noticed GN seems to be missing is a general "chit chat" area where threads and posts that are non guitar related can go. I'm a member of several other forums and such a sub-forum is very useful, it can be used for anything from asking a question about car insurance, opinion on a new mobile phone, or maybe showing some photographs from a recent visit into the wilds or something.
Self-moderation is generally the key, but I think the GN members are by and large a mature bunch so I don't think they'd be an issue.

Thoughts ladies and gentlemen? :)

Rob

If something's not worth doing it's worth forgetting about.
Epiphone Les Paul Std - Yamaha Pacifica 112XJ - Takamine EG340SC - Taylor Baby - Grainger Hammerhead 50 - Grainger Valve Five
http://www.youtube.com/yashicamatonline


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(@musenfreund)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5134
 

We've tried similar forums in the past and they haven't worked out. As a consequence, we've resolved, I think, to keep it guitar and music focused.

Well we all shine on--like the moon and the stars and the sun.
-- John Lennon


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(@elecktrablue)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4389
 

If you want to show pictures of your recent trip into the wilds, you can always post them in "News".

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ -:¦:- Elecktrablue -:¦:-

"Don't wanna ride no shootin' star. Just wanna play on the rhythm guitar." Emmylou Harris, "Rhythm Guitar" from "The Ballad of Sally Rose"


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(@twistedlefty)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4166
 

it's too bad that we can't have something of that nature here,
i guess if you want to discuss things not music/guitar related you have to go somewhere else or pm people.

guess that explains the absence of quite a few members over the last year.

#4491....


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(@alangreen)
Member Moderator
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5366
 

I come here to talk guitars and music, to be honest. If I want to talk about other stuff I can go to a general chit-chat forum but generally I do my chit-chat stuff by e-mail or down the pub. This place is somewhere I come to indulge bits of my number 1 hobby and I'd like it to stay like that.

A :-)

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


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(@rmorash)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 108
 

This place is somewhere I come to indulge bits of my number 1 hobby

Very well put.... I find there is so much information here that I tend to get sidetracked easily. Better for me to at least stay focused on guitars


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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4478
 

personally I think it would be OK. I don't surf the net much at all other than to come to this site so having an area where you can ask other people about things other than guitar doesn't seem like a bad thing.

With that said, depending on who you are it seems non-guitar related threads are OK. A lot of what is posted in the News section is NOT guitar or music related yet it still stays posted? Why is that?

Personally I could care less what gets posted but the rules don't seem to be the same for everyone.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2198
 

I've asked about it before as well. I'd love it and would expand it to include things like political discussions etc. I honestly believe that those types of discussions help us get to know people at a deeper level.

The flip side, and the one I think that moderators are worried about, is that there are some people who can not segment a vigorous, even passionate discussion on an issue from a personal assault. The result is that some people end up feeling unwelcome in general and decline to participate in the rest of the forums -- which is, after all, the reason for the site.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


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(@alangreen)
Member Moderator
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5366
 

I've asked about it before as well. I'd love it and would expand it to include things like political discussions etc. I honestly believe that those types of discussions help us get to know people at a deeper level.

The flip side, and the one I think that moderators are worried about, is that there are some people who can not segment a vigorous, even passionate discussion on an issue from a personal assault. The result is that some people end up feeling unwelcome in general and decline to participate in the rest of the forums -- which is, after all, the reason for the site.

This is my main objection to talking politics and that stuff here. Wholenote.com (another guitar site) had a massive political row blow up a few years back which ended up being a barney about war, with the US contingent polarised against the Europeans (you can guess what was being said by both camps in fairly offensive fashion) and it did end up getting quite personal. No posts got deleted, and nobody got kicked off the site. That's the reason I don't bother with Wholenote any more.

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4478
 

Alan,

I would agree that discussions such as politics and religion might tend to get a bit out of hand. I used to go to Wholenote myself but stopped along time ago.

But being able to post other "non" threatening topics would be neat. Maybe I'm looking for a new laptop, I know there are several people here in the IT business or who have bought PC's recently. It would be nice to post a thread and get recommendations from people you are at least somewhat familiar with rather than total strangers.

But I'm still "confused" as to what the exact criteria is for a post. Like I said many of the posts in the News section have nothing to do with guitars, yet the are left on the board. So what really are the rules?

Now I will use this as an example, why have people been allowed to post threads and pictures of their bables, neices, nephews, etc? Why are those allowed? They aren't guitar related, or even the Happy Birthday posts? They aren't guitar or music related, yet they are allowed to be posted. And I have no problem with it I think that's fine.

But I think posting something about cars or cameras or PC's is the same thing so why aren't those allowed?

The rules should be consistent for everyone.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


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(@elecktrablue)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4389
 

If you'll notice the blurb underneath the "News" heading, it states "Read about the latest happenings of our site!", which can and does include non-guitar, non-musical topics such as birthdays, births, pregnancies, medical problems, etc.... (except for politics and religion, which will never be permitted because they ARE such hot, emotionally driven topics). Nobody is going to object too strenuously if a post happens to veer off slightly from the original music related topic as long as it doesn't devolve into name calling and flame wars. I remember a post not too long ago about cars that went on for pages. The rules are the same for everyone. If someone, for instance, posted about getting a new computer to record their music on, I don't think anyone is going to object if someone asks about personal preferences regarding computers in general (as long as it doesn't degenerate into a Mac vs. PC, you'reanidiotforthinkingthewayyoudo, sort of thing). Or, since you know who the IT guys are, for the most part, why not PM them directly and have a one on one conversation? That's what it's there for.

As was stated at the beginning of this post, we HAVE tried this before and each time it has failed miserably. I'm sure a lot of you remember the fairly recent Coffee Shop fiasco. Self moderation is an ideal, but is not something that, in past experience, happens with each and every member. Some people can't help taking a difference in opinion as a personal affront. They do not weigh their words before they post. They react in anger when someone disagrees with them, and type whatever happens to be in their head at that particular second, without thinking about whether or not that is the best way to get their point across. They just start flaming. The natural reaction to that is to flame back. Then we have a war. And posts get deleted, and threads get locked, feelings get hurt and people start yelling "Censorship".

I doubt very seriously that, after the Coffee Shop thing, we will ever have another "anything goes" sort of forum. I'm sorry if that disappoints.

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ -:¦:- Elecktrablue -:¦:-

"Don't wanna ride no shootin' star. Just wanna play on the rhythm guitar." Emmylou Harris, "Rhythm Guitar" from "The Ballad of Sally Rose"


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(@danlasley)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

If you are looking for open forums, try TotalFormat in the UK, or the DailyColumn in USA/NewEngland. I'm sure there are others, each with its own personality.


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(@alangreen)
Member Moderator
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5366
 

But I think posting something about cars or cameras or PC's is the same thing so why aren't those allowed?

The rules should be consistent for everyone.

Perfectly valid comment and I couldn't agree more about the consistency thing.

Y'see the thing is, you can already come here and talk about your new car or your new camera or grandson, and you can talk about how to change a head gasket or a nappy (diaper (sp) in the US) or how to get a decent photo without a tripod after dark, and we'll all take part quite happily cos those are off-topic but appropriate things that musicians talk about. Then some dead-from-the-neck-up moron comes along, thinks it's a free for all and starts getting abusive about your choice of football team or posting links to pics of Britney Spears doing what your grandparents did back in the day and it all heads south rapidly; us mods have to go round deleting brain-dead morons because they're brain-dead morons when we'd rather be talking about rock and roll things, and there's no fun in that. And that's without mentioning the Politics or Religion words.

People let their kids surf here too, it's "safe" - we talk about guitars, not about how it's right to go blowing up Pakistani ex-Prime Ministers (topical non-guitar subject this week). I'd like to see the place stay that way.

A :-)

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


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(@musenfreund)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5134
 

And I think we've tried it at least three times that I can recall, but, as Alan says, someone always manages to take things far too far and we end up forced to shut it down. All in all, the current format seems to be working pretty nicely.

Well we all shine on--like the moon and the stars and the sun.
-- John Lennon


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(@ignar-hillstrom)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5384
 

The thing that bothers me is that politics, religion and you name it are NOT unconnected with music, or atleast, shouldn't be. For some reason or other the idea that music stands on itself seems to have creeped into our culture and the result is that modern music is about absolutely nothing at all. Blues, one of the #1 popular genres on guitar forums, is very much about social injustice, politics and religion. Listen to modern blues, either professional and amateur and tell me what the hell those artists are trying to tell me. John loves Jane but Jane doesn't love John. Or worse, a blues about how happy Jane and Joe are together. What do I care?

I love the old blues guys. Plenty of them were very devout Christians and it shows in their music. Do I, as an agnost, mind? Heck no, when I listen to their music I hear someone who's actually sincere about what he says. There's a soul in it that has been lost somewhere along the way. Reducing music to just a bunch of chords is nonsense. Safe nonsense, but nonsense nevertheless. I want to hear what people think, what they feel, how things affect them, how they experience the world as it changes all around us. There has, to my knowledge, only been one album in the Netherlands that dealt with Iraq. It was by Neil Young, probably because nobody had told him that the hippy days were over. All the younger artists either didn't dare to say what they feel (which is bad) or didnt have an opinion in the first place (which is even worse). Music has as much soul and individuality these days as a BigMac and that is precisely because nobody gets to talk about important things in a sane, politefull and mature way.

And yes, I understand that the world is filled with idiots whose sole concept of debating means slinging badly spelled insults at each other. I understand that the mods here, who do a fantastic job, have better things to do then patrol GN 24/7 looking for pathetic crap poorly disguised as discussions. I understand many people have the natural instinct to talk bad about someone's new amp if that person didn't like the same politician/God/football team in another discussion.

Last year I've tried a number of times, with all brakes applied and in Dutch, to bring some political stuff to the boards by writing music and posting it. Nick Himself came down from the Olympian Throne and laid down the law: don't *talk* about politics, but if you want to write a song about it go right ahead. That, IMHO, is great. The idiots won't spend the time if they can't simply insult someone in ten seconds. Now in the new year I myself want to use this freedom given to us a bit more. Now this takes some thought: while being honest will *always* offend someone or other that's no excuse to not consider other people's feelings. Also, GN is a forum for people of all ages and that's something we have to respect.

I've been rambling a bit but what I'm trying to say is probably this: let those who want to discuss things do it in a musical and polite way. If it contains 'adult' content (and I don't mean celebrity pics ) make a post, explain what you did and ask people to drop a PM if they want the link. That way kids can't accidently click things they shouldn't, the adults aren't censored, people who are easily offended can choice to stay out and the connection between music and 'worldy topics' is kept intact. As it should be.

Input very much appreciated.


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