Sunday Morning

Hi again,

We're certainly all unique in some ways but none of us are really incomparable, much as we'd like to think otherwise. Many years ago I read a comment from a very well respected philosopher who said (approximately):
“The hardest thing for any young person to accept is how very much like other young people they are...”.
It took me a while to swallow it too, but there's some useful truth in it. All writers certainly need to discover their own original and fresh voice, yet human emotions and experiences are shared more widely than some of initially think. If you don't believe that any creative person can learn anything from another, that is an unusually isolationist viewpoint.

I put the word “works” in quotation marks because it was direct quote of what you had said. Like many other people, that's the way that I use them. If was intending to show that I had some doubts about the appropriateness of a word, or wished to indicate irony, then I tend to use single inverted commas like this - ‘amusing'. But there's no hard rule about that and the two styles get used in all manner of combinations, so it can be easy to misconstrue. To make my intention (quoting you) clearer I even put all the quoted words in italics. Perhaps it would have been even better if I'd removed the middle marks.

“works.... so that people can read them, feel, contemplate, probably recognize themselves in my lyrics, which can be helpful for them, showing them they are not alone.”

You are of course entitled to call your creations whatever you like - “works”, ‘works' or works are all fine with me. But this is still a public forum for songwriting and the expectation is that people post here to get feedback, advice and/or collaboration to help turn their words into usable song lyrics. As it says in the board index:

Guitar Noise Songwriting Club:

Get help writing songs, find composers for your lyrics or set up songwriting exchanges. You can post messages here to find songwriting partners or post your lyrics and get feedback.

Most of us see this as a place for exchange of ideas about songwriting. There is a good mix of experienced and inexperienced writers and composers at Guitarnoise, and I have certainly found it useful to get comments from as wide a range of people as possible. However, they're unlikely to step forward if their comments aren't going to be appreciated.

Do you actually have any musical ideas about how to turn this into a song? Most composers of music are likely to want to suggest or request changes of pace or rhythm from a lyricist - as will singers if something is too hard to phrase. If you have no flexibility whatever you will put off many potential collaborators.

Do try and loosen up a bit. None of us initially likes being edited or critiqued much, but once you learn its role in achieving a better end result it does get easier to accept. Honestly... :wink:

Good luck.

Chris

Do try and loosen up a bit. None of us initially likes being edited or critiqued much, but once you learn its role in achieving a better end result it does get easier to accept. Honestly...

That's good advice from Chris, and well-meant. If you're going to post lyrics for feedback, what IS the point of anyone replying if their honest assessments of your work are going to be rejected out of hand? I also notice you don't bother to critique anyone else's songs...a case of all taking, no giving?

It's also noticeable that your latest lyrics - Tomorrow's Exceptional Hero - hasn't, as yet, received any replies. Could this possibly be due to your perceived attitude? You can come across as aloof, condescending, arrogant - "These are MY songs, don't you DARE change a single word or comma of them - they're perfect as they are!" - where a little humility, and the grace to accept that if something strikes everyone else as wrong, or clumsy, it might need changing, would go a long way.

You're not unique - we're all songwriters here, we all want to improve our craft, which is why we post lyrics for feedback. I couldn't count the number of times I've changed something in a song because someone's pointed out something I've missed. On the other hand, I've also offered my advice on many occasions over the four and a half years I've been contributing to the Sunday Songwriter's Group and this particular forum. Sometimes, that advice has been taken - sometimes not. But it's always been offered as well-meaning, constructive criticism - if I think something's wrong, or misleading, or badly phrased, or repetitive, I'll point it out. And if there's a flaw in one of my lyrics I've missed, I hope someone will be good enough to spot it, point it out, and offer suggestions. I'll accept criticism in the spirit in which it's given - and 99.99% of the time on Guitarnoise, that spirit is friendly, well meaning and constructive.

You do write good lyrics, from what I've read of them - but no-one's perfect. Bob Dylan wrote a lot of great songs - but he also wrote some unutterable garbage. It's the great songs he'll be remembered for, though.

So my honest advice, if you do receive criticism for lyrics, take note; it will have been offered for the best reasons. Accept it in the spirit it's given.....NO-ONE IS PERFECT!

:D :D :D

Vic

Re: "Castles, built on the shards of dreams are just pain's another guise,

And "another" is perfectly correct, as here I'm trying to say that pain has two guises, one is seen, one is hidden, "castles , built on the shards of dreams" are the hidden one.
If pain has just two guises (your words), the appropriate word to use is "other".
Using "another" implies multiple guises. (I personally believe pain has thousands of guises.)

That is why in my first post I asked,
Do you mean another or other?
I'm sure pain has many more guises so "another" is appropriate but . . . . really awkwardly worded.
I tripped over it anyway.

And Canrock added . . .
It's not that it's incorrect, it's just akward. "Other" is less akward and no less correct.
. . reiterating the same point. You assumed incorrectness. We were saying, awkward, clumsy, clunky.

"Castles, built on the shards of dreams are just pain's other guise"
is less awkward or clunky IMHO. (And if I was a gambling KR, I would bet in other people's opinion also)

That was my original suggestion . . .
I guess I'm beating a dead horse because after a while, when the horse doesn't 'get it', I begin to wonder "why bother?".

It's firmly established you mean what you say, we're just trying to help you say what you mean.
And it doesn't help you when, with a wave of your hand, you dismiss us with,
My work is oriented on those who are capable of understanding it, that's everything I can say.
(as if we were incapable of understanding Your Greatness)

You could post the ingredients listed on a cereal box, call it your poem/song/lyrics and tell everyone it's perfect . . .
and you'd be right . . . and you would mean what you say . . . and said "everything I can say" . . .

I'm going to stop beating the horse now,
(so far, it hasn't helped me or the horse - and possibly harmed us both - maybe pain's another guise)
It seems you've turned my thread into your own discussion which seems to be pointless.
KR2 (Pointless? The point was to help you. If you didn't 'get it' then the horse IS dead)

Well, I don't mind receiving criticism if anyone just can't help giving it, but I don't want it to be so detailed, as I know for sure that I won't change anything in my lyrics, at least now, I just wouldn't mind to know the potential listeners' wishes in general, to know what they expect from a song to keep these wishes in mind when writing further.
Even if you just say "I don't like it", it's ok with me - as many people, as many tastes. It will be honest and brief, and there's no use posting those detailed comments if I can't be bothered to read them till the end, knowing that there is no need for me to do so. I'm the author, I obtain all the rights.
And I'm not at all disappointed if the thread gets no replies, the main thing is that it gets views. As I've said a thousand times, the main purpose of my being here (and on any other forum) is to get people to read my work rather than to turn the thread into such a debate. Period.