Playing in different (neck) positions

exellent illustration of your point there wes. thanks - ill give that a go. im actually working hard on improving my blues at the minute (as well as learning some new songs for the band) - so i will try to use this idea with my backing tracks.
so basically if i learn the 1 4 and 5 note positions in the 1st box, then i can use this idea in any key?

great idea cheers.

Exactly. :D

Learn each interval (relating to the Root) in each box. Learn the note name too. If you are playing Blues especially and using the Minor Pentatonic scale, you want to know where the Root, 4th, and 5th notes are in each box or pattern.

But as I said, C is the flatted 3rd over the A chord, it is a blue note. But that same C note is also the flatted 7th over the D chord.

A= Root for A, 5th for D, 4th for E
C= flatted 3rd for A, flatted 7th for D
D= 4th for A, Root of D, flatted 7th for E
E= 5th for A, Root for E
G= flatted 7th for A, 5th for D, flatted 3rd for E.

So, look at the fantastic interval options you have right there for a simple 12 bar Blues in the key of A. All from the five notes of the A Minor Pentatonic scale. :D

Edit- And of course, if you were playing a Blues in B and wanted to use the B Minor Pentatonic scale, you simply move each of these notes up two frets (one whole step). The box patterns and intervals are exactly the same in relation to each other.

Wes, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Like most of you poosts, I've learned alot! 8)

Blueline

You are very welcome. :D

That targeting notes example I gave may seem to be too simple to actually be used, but here is a great song that uses that technique exactly as I showed, playing a repetative riff, only changing the very last note in the riff to end on the Root note of the chord being played over. This was a big hit by Eric Clapton with Cream back in the 60's "Strange Brew"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZaCqN355SA

This song is played with the A Minor Pentatonic scale over a Blues progression in A. The only chords used in the song are A, D7#9, and E7#9. The 7#9 chord is also called the "Hendrix chord", the chord Hendrix made famous in Purple Haze.



A . D7#9 .

So this is a very simple little riff that ends on the Root of the next chord in the progression. Super simple, but very effective. :D

nice example - ill have a listen to that song.
can this method be adopted to land on the 3rd or 5 th of a chord, or does that not work as well??

Almann1979

Yes it can. If it sounds good, it is good .

And these target notes can be anywhere in the phrase, not just the last note. Many players start a phrase with a target note. But they can be in the middle too. :D

A maj D maj A maj
R f3 R f7 5th R f3
e--------------------------------------------------
b--------------------------------------------------
g--------5-----------5-----------5-----------5-----
d--7--7-----7-----------7--7--7-----7--7--7-----7--
a--------------5--5--------------------------------
e--------------------------------------------------
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

Here I start the A chord with the Root, the flatted 3rd and back to Root, when it goes to D I start with the Root, go to the flatted 7th (of D), then to the 5th (of D). On the E chord I play Root, flatted 3rd (of E) then back to Root.

But you don't want to be so obvious as this, you don't want to sound like you are using a method. But targeting notes helps you hit those "pretty notes" that will lead a listener's ear through the progression. Experiment with notes like this all the time. You can start or end with them, or throw them in anywhere you like. Target notes ALWAYS sound good. :wink:

I am kinda getting away from the subject of playing in the different positions or box scales.

Here is a very simple technique used by many guitarists. Play the same lick, just play it in another position or box scale.


V I II = (positions Am Pent scale)
~~~~~~~~~~
e------------------------10--8------------------
b------------------------------10--8--10--------
g-------------7--5------------------------------
d-------------------7--5------------------------
a-5--3------------------------------------------
e-------5--3------------------------------------
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

This lick starts in the 5th position Am Pentatonic, is repeated in the 1st position, then repeated in the 2nd position. This technique is used by Blues guitarists especially. It's easy and always sounds great.

Another great technique is switching scales between Minor and Major Pentatonic. A Master of this is Eric Clapton. He does this on his great solo in Sunshine of Your Love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zga4_09nWzY&feature=related

The scale patterns or boxes for the Minor and Major Pentatonic look the same, only the Major Pentatonic scale is played 3 frets lower than the Minor Pentatonic scale.


D Minor Pentatonic 1st position
e-----------------------------------------10--13-
b---------------------------------10--13---------
g-------------------------10--12-----------------
d-----------------10--12-------------------------
a---------10--12---------------------------------
e-10--13-----------------------------------------

So the D Minor Pentatonic 1st position is found at the 10th fret (based on index finger position), while the D Major Pentatonic 1st position is found at the 7th fret (based on index finger). But the fingerings are the same. So, if you know one, it is easy to know the other. :D

Some players will shift back and forth between the Minor and Major Pentatonic. It takes skill and a talent for musical expression to know exactly when to switch back and forth.

Here is the tab for the solo beginning at 2:01 through 2:15 in that video. It is very close. But you can see Eric played the first phrase in the Minor Pent. 1st position, then shifted down to play the next phrase in the Major Pent. 1st position. He switches back and forth like this throughout the solo effortlessly. This takes great skill.


Sunshine of Your Love solo

Basically, the Minor Pent. will sound Bluesy, the Major Pent. will sound more Country. Experiment switching between the two scales in a solo.

thats a great point, but exactly when can you switch between the two? i have tried this tonight and if i start on the minor it sounds bad if i switch to major and vise versa. how do i know when i can switch? - does it rely on the chord progression? or are there notes like the flat 3rd (over a mojor) that need to be avoided or targetted?

if i start on one and remain on it im fine but switching betwen the two seems above me at the minute? the clapton clips seemed to work well but why? - . When i switch from one to the other are there certain target notes i should switch to?

thats a great point, but exactly when can you switch between the two? i have tried this tonight and if i start on the minor it sounds bad if i switch to major and vise versa. how do i know when i can switch? - does it rely on the chord progression? or are there notes like the flat 3rd (over a mojor) that need to be avoided or targetted?

if i start on one and remain on it im fine but switching betwen the two seems above me at the minute? the clapton clips seemed to work well but why? - . When i switch from one to the other are there certain target notes i should switch to?
thats a great point, but exactly when can you switch between the two? i have tried this tonight and if i start on the minor it sounds bad if i switch to major and vise versa. how do i know when i can switch? - does it rely on the chord progression? or are there notes like the flat 3rd (over a mojor) that need to be avoided or targetted?

if i start on one and remain on it im fine but switching betwen the two seems above me at the minute? the clapton clips seemed to work well but why? - . When i switch from one to the other are there certain target notes i should switch to?

Almann1979

You have asked the $64,000 question. :D

I don't know if I can tell you when to change. In Sunshine of Your Love EC seems to play one phrase in the Minor, then plays a phrase in the Major. It's kind of a timing thing I guess. I have experimented with this technique for years, sometimes it comes out great, other times it doesn't.

Some other songs that use this technique is the solo in Alright Now by Free. Paul Kossoff starts his solo in the A Major Pentatonic, then goes to the A Minor Pentatonic, then Major, then Minor. Again, it almost seems like a timing thing, or even a call-and-response where he plays a phrase in one scale, then answers it in another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAZc1LUssKI

A Minor Pentatonic (call)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
e--5--------------------------------------------
b-------8-----5---------------------------------
g----------------7-----5------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------
e-----------------------------------------------
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

All I can say is constantly experiment. :D

cheers wes. much appreciated

Very nice posts, Wes.

You are really helpful. I liked playing the Hendrix chord.

Cheers !