Has anybody else heard about this?

Great debate here. I'm going to throw in something from the artist perspective - as you all know, I make a portion of my living from sales of my writing.

Creative efforts are up-front efforts. While you are actually investing the time you have no product - and your income is therefore zero. You're working on the faith that someone will pay for it when it's done. Once you've completed your work, your effort drops to zero... this is the only opportunity you have to get compensation for your effort.

Taking someone's work on the 'I wouldn't buy it anyway' logic is theft, plain and simple. Maybe not 'theft' in legal terms, but you're enjoying the fruits of the artists' labor and they get nothing in exchange for providing it to you. If you wouldn't buy it, don't download it. If you download it, don't claim you wouldn't buy it... what you're really saying is that you WOULD buy it (because you've exhibited the desire to own it), but you don't want to pay the market price.

On the other hand, I DO think the digital age calls for a revision of copyright law. The analogues to 'hard product' models of the past are still in use - and they end up being a license to print money for the property owners (who are rarely the artists). But that battle will be fought in legislatures, not the market.

Write your elected officials and tell them what you think. If that doesn't work, get different elected officials :)

I agree with you Chris and Noteboat.

What if an artist was playing a large stadium and everyone in the audience snuck in rather than bought tickets? Well it's just soundwaves and the artist would be playing the instruments anyway, so what is the harm?

Those soundwaves are their product. That music, performed, written, on CD, on MP3, on FM is their livelihood. When you take it without paying, you are stealing.

By the way, we've had discussions on the MP3 thing before.

This is the answer :D
http://creativecommons.org/
The songwriter and or performer can choose how they want to share the music or recording.

Uh Oh, people better get started downloading some powertab files...some of those are stolen from published tab books and/or Guitar World.

You can't say I didn't warn ya. :cry:

i don think how music industry plans to stop the tabs.Ok i don see tabs the much to play songs.Its only to get an idea of a song.Why should i go round to buy the whole sheet music.Damn i don't know how to read sheet music.

Now i am not a professional.Why should i learn to read sheet music either.?
I think the big bosses at song bmg and riaa have really gone mad and they need some wake up calls or they wil really lose out more on their sales.

Well, two major sites have now been shut down (mxtabs and powertabs). The threat of legal action will diminish the number of sites. I was surprised to see that this is really happening.

On the other hand, I DO think the digital age calls for a revision of copyright law. The analogues to 'hard product' models of the past are still in use - and they end up being a license to print money for the property owners (who are rarely the artists). But that battle will be fought in legislatures, not the market.

I think the digital age also provides the vehicle to dramatically alter the market in such a way that the property owners can be the artists. ( I hope, I hope, I hope)

I also think that the battle will be fought on a number of fronts, which will include the market as well as the legislature.

It was good to read your description of the effort / compensation process, NoteBoat, even though you'd think it'd be obvious, it's such a different means of earning a living, I think we sometimes lose sight of it.

I also want to second Smokindog's mention of the Creative Commons. It's a wonderful alternative to traditional copyright. And it provides an approach that might be good to study as long as we're talking about re-vamping the copyright laws. Another good resource for research is the Electronic Frontier Foundation -- http://www.eff.org . They cover a lot of stuff, but a section of their site is devoted to "Intellectual Property" concerns.

...Those soundwaves are their product. That music, performed, written, on CD, on MP3, on FM is their livelihood. When you take it without paying, you are stealing...

Nick,

I swear, I'm not trying to pick an argument, just trying to wrap my feeble brain around this whole issue, because it doesn't seem anywhere near as cut and dry to me as it does to some.

I listen to FM quite often, and I don't pay one red cent for it. Sure, I had to buy the receiver, but not one of the artists I listen to on it were compensated from that purchase.

The other day, you played "I'll be around" by the Spinners, at the office Christmas party, right? Did you have to get permission from their label? Or whomever holds the copyright? You did perform their song in public, even though it was your arrangement.

The folks who work at Red Lobster have to make up their own annoying "happy birthday" song so they don't have to pay royalties to AOL / Time Warner. These aren't performers mind you, who make their living performing songs, these are dishwashers, cooks, and wait staff. Probably making minimum wage or tips. (unless they're in Hollywood or New York, in which case they probably are performers, but still working for minimum wage and tips)

The church I attended in CA had to buy some kind of copyright notice thing that was printed at the bottom of every bulletin just so we could run copies of lyrics to some popular praise choruses. If we didn't print them, but sang them from memory, we wouldn't have had to buy the permission. Nobody was making a profit on these.

I download 3 songs by Jess Klein, to see if I like her music. I do. So I go out and buy the CD.
I download 3 songs by Son Volt to see if I like his music. I don't, so I don't buy the CD, and I don't listen to the mp3s.
So one artist makes a sale, and one doesn't, and I'm able to spend my money more wisely. But all 6 songs were illegally obtained according to the RIAA.

The whole IP system in this country is messed up. Or so it seems to me. It doesn't make sense to villify people based on a system that's so convoluted.

the part that bothers me is how they are able to obtain the info that you "may or may not" have illegal files on your pc.
that is what has rubbed me wrong from the beginning.
i'm not an expert on how the P2P stuff works but how in the world did they slip by the 4th ammendment?

and isn't it a little like extortion to threaten to sue for a huge amount unless you settle out of court for a "few thousand".
imo the riaa should be brought up on charges for extortion under the RICO ACT.

the part that bothers me is how they are able to obtain the info that you "may or may not" have illegal files on your pc.
that is what has rubbed me wrong from the beginning.
i'm not an expert on how the P2P stuff works but how in the world did they slip by the 4th ammendment?

and isn't it a little like extortion to threaten to sue for a huge amount unless you settle out of court for a "few thousand".
imo the riaa should be brought up on charges for extortion under the RICO ACT.
They are :lol: :lol: :lol: http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5161209.html

the part that bothers me is how they are able to obtain the info that you "may or may not" have illegal files on your pc.
that is what has rubbed me wrong from the beginning.
i'm not an expert on how the P2P stuff works but how in the world did they slip by the 4th ammendment?

and isn't it a little like extortion to threaten to sue for a huge amount unless you settle out of court for a "few thousand".
imo the riaa should be brought up on charges for extortion under the RICO ACT.
They are :lol: :lol: :lol: http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5161209.html

wow i had not seen that, thanx.

No I sure didn't. :shock: That doesn't make it right. I'll send my check off tomorrow.

Then again, I might not need to. From ASCAP:

Public Performance or Performance Rights
A public performance is one that occurs "in a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered." A public performance also occurs when the performance is transmitted by means of any device or process (for example, via broadcast, telephone wire, or other means) to the public. In order to perform a copyrighted work publicly, the user must obtain performance rights from the copyright owner or his representative.

Since these were my normal circle of work friends/social acquaintances, and it wasn't a public performance I should be fine.

Now, you don't pay for FM, but the radio station does for you everytime they play a song.

One thing I think most of us can agree on is copyright/IP laws in this country need to change.

I really didn't visit either of those two tab sites, but I feel like I'm under attack.

I listen to FM quite often, and I don't pay one red cent for it. Sure, I had to buy the receiver, but not one of the artists I listen to on it were compensated from that purchase.

The artists don't get paid when you buy a radio. That's because you might not use it to listen to music - maybe you're just into traffic/weather/sports. But the artists ARE compensated whenever a radio station plays their songs.

The broadcast material is paid for by the station, who covers the cost by selling advertising. If they broadcast music, they'll pay a fee based on the size of their audience to BMI, ASCAP, etc., which will cover all of the time they'll devote to playing recordings.

BMI etc. then calculate how much of this money belongs to each artist, based on station logs, random audits, etc. and sends out checks to the artists.

How does it work when you go to a concert and the band plays a cover tune :?: I think half of the big name shows I've seen, at some point the band will play a cover tune. Does that band being covered get comped? Does that fall into what Nick covered, er, talked about.

This whole issue is making my head spin :? . I need a beer. Too bad for me I"m at work :cry:

Lets say the Joe Blow Band gets a gig at the local watering hole, how does BMI etc get paid in this case :?: --the dog